So, this discussion has happened many times, regarding many scenarios, but since it's flat and we were discussing things in another thread, I didn't want to derail it. I am not sure who it was, but one of the vets on here said recently something to the effect of: "If you don't purchase your boards from your local shaper, you should be doused with gasoline and lit on fire" So theres that... We also have people on here that are of the mindset "I don't care what kind of boardies I wear. I buy my trunks from walmart cause they are cheap and comfortable and I don't follow mainstream surf fashion and don't care what kind of board shorts Jamie Obrien has on this week.... " We also have local shapers that are members of this community... So what is everyone's stance? How "local" do you keep it? How "local" do you think other should keep it. In my past, I have always supported local shapers that have supported me. I bought boards from the guy who floated me a few free ones back in the day and he wanted his boards to be seen and once he got a lot bigger, he was giving me boards basically at cost, which was less than half of what they retailed at the local shop... Every now and again, usually my wife, would go in the shop and pay full sticker price for a board to "support the cause" I always buy leashes, wax, glass, resin etc from my local shop. Well, I used to when I had a local shop. There arent any here. But I have purchased sharp eye boards before and loved them. I was the king of going to TJ max or Marshalls and paying $10 for quikie boardshorts instead of paying $60 for the new years model at the shop.... I have shelled out $500 for a new wetty at the shop, and I have shelled out $75 from some sketchy dude from LA that had a truck load of them that were probably stolen... How local is local? At how much over market value are you willing to pay to keep your local shaper or shop in business? At what point does consumer value and "bang for your buck" take over the utopian dream world of putting all your hard earned money into you local business, when you know that you could get the same quality, for much cheaper elsewhere... At what point do you feel taken advantage of by your shop when you are paying the overpriced values that are geared to a tourist town? Are you going to buy that suit from the local shop for $450, when you see the same thing on sale online for $185? Whats the dealio?
Strictly talking abut surfboards, i've never seen a local board maker charge over market value, and I'm not ever sure its really possible. The way I see it, spending a couple hours talking shapes and designs and your needs with a local guy who has experience building boards, riding the board, giving them feedback is just a different purchase than buying an off-the-rack board from a california or Florida shaper you'll never interact with. If the local guys charges a bit more than the mass-produced board (which happens with some local shapers whose boards are in demand) , I dont see that as charging OVER market, I see it as a different product. Maybe I'm over analyzing you question. Short answer, if I dont think i'm getting good value from the local guy, i'm gonna keep looking.
I buy what I can afford. Really all the preachy buy local crap gets annoying...it can be good or it can be crap I surf to surf, not to buy local or change the economy. I don't have that much money so I buy the best values I can find. Only bought one new board in my life the rest (about 7) all used, I buy local if I like the product and/or the price. My surfing has come along nicely on my cheap crap until this year when I got all fat. It is a business world not a fairy tale world, buy what you want, it is your money. Let all the dudes who want to feel righteous crap on you for not buying local then take every wave from them and go drink some beers on the money you saved or buy your girl a present. .
True. I guess the scenerio I was meaning to say is this: My shaper was floating me boards for $275. If I refered people to him, directly, he would charge them about $450 out the door. His custom boards were marked up $200 dollars in the local shop at around $650... So that is more what I am saying... Are you going to keep you local surf shop in business, buying local boards off the rack? Its a little different if you go directly to the shaper.... And to be honest, I think market value of almost all surfboards now has become a joke... I mean, how in 10 years did the stickers in shops go up like 25-30% when its basically the same materials, same designs. Brand new, locally shaped plus ones in San Diego were going to $450 brand new, now they are $650-$675.... And another note about local shapers... Before I went through micah, I used to go to George and Joe from Plus One.... It got to be that they were on a 4 month waiting period for a while there, but if you went to all the local shops in San Diego, you would find dozens of their boards... So a lot of times, I would just go to a few shops, bite the bullet and buy one off the rack. There is something to be said for seeing, holding the rails and knowing EXACTLY what you are getting, rather than talking with the guy and hoping he gets you the stick that you want.... So, if the market is really slow, maybe your guy can get you a board in two weeks, but if you know that same guy has a dozen boards down a Malibu, are you willing to support that shop and that guy by paying far more than you know you should be?
i try to keep it as local as possible. i used to get the vast majority of my boards from brian wynn, whose factory is no more than 30 min. from my house, door to door. unfortunately, through either miscommunication on my part or misinterpretation on his part (most likely the former), i got a few duds from him, went elsewhere, & am slightly hesitant to go back. the majority of my boards are campbell bros. or bings now...while not local, i'd say they get a "pass" as smaller operations. you can still have a personal relationship w/ the guy who will be mowing the foam that becomes your board. i've exchanged emails & phone calls w/ malcolm campbell quite a bit dialing in sizes & dims for custom orders. bing is a larger operation, but still smallish. i've never spoken or emailed w/ matt calvani, but i know my area's bing rep very well. i guess, for me, as long as you can put a face to the person who is building your board, it's ok. i've had a few ci's & lost's, & they've worked well, but not great, & i like being able to talk w/ a person about what was "wrong" w/ the board, why i didn't like it, & what we can change on the next one to make it better. that, IMO, you can't put a price on. plain white campbell bros. sell otr here for $700 +/-, bings for about the same. customs aren't much different, but it's worth it to me b/c i know what i'm getting & trust the guy behind the planer. there are a couple other jersey shapers who i want to try out, but i'm not in a place to be buying or ordering boards right now, so it'll have to wait. i also stumbled upon my step-brother's old wynn quad fish (very speed dialer-esqu) that's beat to hell & it felt good under my arm & in my hands. so maybe i'll give wynn another shot & see if he can make me a duplicate of that board. there's also company called greenlines in nj that makes boardshorts that are eco-friendly. no bells & whistles or crazy neon patterns, just good, simple boardshorts. my wife got me a pair for xmas & i'm stoked to try them out. they fit a bit differently than your rip-vol-bong shorts, in that they don't use vanity sizing, so my ego took a bit of a hit when the 34's she got me didn't fit, but that gave me the chance to experience their customer service, which is excellent. they also cost about the same, or less, than most boardshorts in the shops. $60+/-. i'd get my leashes from crow haley, who is in california (i think), but leashes aren't something i think about until i need one, & it's hard to beat the convenience of walking into my local shop & grabbing one off the accessory wall. removable fins for non-bonzers i get from SOAR, an australian company who still makes them by hand. again, no carbon-techy stuff, just simple fiberglass or hexcore fins. cnc cut, hand finished. they cost a bit more, esp. w/ shipping, but they're high quality & great fins. true ames, who unfortuantely has moved a good bit of their production offshore (china), is still my go-to for bonzer fins, but i've seen some good stuff from fins unlimited, so i may be giving them a shot the next time i need a fin. long story short, free/cheap is great, but if they don't work, i'm not going back. but, as i said, i prefer to be able to hold a conversation w/ the guy who will be making my board. faceless ghost shapers are not my thing. so when i say "local", i suppose i should say "small(er) scale". the main thing i'm opposed to is poorly made crap from overseas. i think that surfers, if they're willing to do a bit of research, can get locally made or at least domestically made gear for the same price, more or less, that's better quality & these products would be carried in the shops if surfers asked for or demanded them. i don't think it's an "either-or" type of situation. you can have your cake & eat it, too.
See, I hear a lot of people talk about how they don't like CI and LOST and boards like that. I have never had an issue with them, and with that being said, I do think there is some value in the fact that you can get an EXACT duplicate of a board that you hear kelly slater rave about. He explains why he loves it, where and when he surfs it, and you can call up CI and say, yup, I want that EXACT model, and they punch it into their computer, and bam, you get the EXACT same thing.... Most local shapers can't do that. A lof of them will tell you that they have a model that is like a dumpster diver, or like this or that... And they can try and get you the exact same board, but I have never thought that the quality of these larger US companies boards have been crap. Shoot, I used to tell plus one about problems back in the day and me and other folks changed the way they did thinks. I stomped through every REDX fin box they used back in the early 2000s. The design of the boxes were terrible... After a few months, I would crack the glass around the boxes from stomping hard landings... Then they moved in to FCS fins, and some of their thinner boards did leave enough foam and glass above their boxes and they got stomped out too.... They finally nailed it about 5 years ago. I felt like I helped a bit with it. All their team riders would stomp through the boxes too, but then they would just get repaired and end up on the used rack.... And Plus One is regarded as the premiere local shaping company in San Diego.... I feel like with companies like CI, they have a lot more consistency. They come out exactly the way the should... I feel like a lot of grass roots local shapers produce high quality boards, but I also think they have a tendency to over glass and use a little more product than they should to increase durability. Cause you dont want a local guy that just paid you $500 bucks 2 weeks ago coming in with a board that snapped in half on a waist high day, or have the fin box issue that I addressed. I think when you have to see someone face to face in the lineup, you feel a responsibility to get them a durable product. But with durability, usually comes with decreased performance... Its a fine line between, fast, light, high performance and being too thin, or visa versa I dont want to derail this into a Al Merrick slander fest, cause I know what people think of him on this site, but firewire and CI and those guys pump out quality boards that are damn near flawless with extreme precision.
Ohh, and Sand Blaster, thanks for putting me on to John Tolly. He is the premiere local shaper down here. He called me at work surprisingly after I emailed him a couple days before and this guy was the nicest, most knowledgable guy EVER. He spent about 30 minutes talking about the surf around here and got SUPER technical on the shapes he thinks would work for me. He broke down every last inch of the board, almost to the point of confusions, but regardless of this conversation, my next board will be through him... He knows his sh**. Super excited about trying out one of his boards. Hopefully that will become a longstanding relationship going forward.
yea, i agree. they are very consistent. i mentioned them only in regard to my own experience w/ them. if the ci's i've had had been magic, i'd have stuck w/ them. but they weren't, so i didn't. i also like the added durability & weight in my boards. i'm not a small guy, & i'm tough on the decks of my boards. a 4/4 glassing schedule doesn't cut it for me. of course, i also don't think that the majority of surfers are good enough or sensitive enough to their equipment to really feel or be affected by the extra weight & would be better served by having a more durable board that lasts longer (but that's just my opinion).
I'm willing to pay a bit more for quality and I don't care where they are located. If there is a local source for surfboards that is a quality product I'll use that source. Besides keeping your dollars in the local economy, this guys surfs the same waves you do and has seen you surf. I can tell my local shaper what I'm looking for and give specific examples and he knows what im talking about. The end result is a surfboard that fits my needs exactly. But if there is a specific thing I want and the best guy that does that is not local i'll go there. Anything else in the surf industry, and almost everything else, I'm more brand loyal. I like Rainbow Sandals, Patagonia board shorts,and Ripcurl Wetsuits becuase they make a quality product that lasts and they honor their warranties. then its just searching for a low price regardles of location.
A thought provoking thread indeed zach619. Boards are one thing, and gear is another. I used to get my boards from a couple of friends of mine who were sponsored and got sick of them after a couple of weeks, and sold them to me cheap. I have also bought a couple of CIs from a shop off the rack. The owner of the shop always supports Surfrider here locally, and he gives me a discount, but it is still a high dollar purchase. I am now working with a local shaper who helps (is teaching me,actually) me shape my own boards. The Al Merricks were of fine quality, and resold at consignment for well over $300 each. They rode well, and I felt I got my moneys worth. i used to get Fox boards, and Kechles, and they fall apart after a few month of good surf. They are good to ride, but I can't afford to buy new boards all the time, so durability is a big factor. The boards I have shaped work with mixed results, one is really good for waist to shoulder high stuff we get all the time, and is very rewarding that I can surf well on a shape I made myself. It was alot cheaper than buying a new custom board. On good waves, I will only trust a proven shaper, and I want to go over my preferences etc in person or over the phone before ordering. This is the best way. Regarding gear, i buy an expensive pair of shorts from the surf shop that supports the local Surfrider Foundation. I buy leashes, wax and shwag from him when it is on sale. Otherwise i do not feel any guilt whatsoever buying tshirts and non surfing swim shorts and sandals and even wetsuits form the cheapest outlet. Fins - I did't know True Ames is now manufacturing in China. that sucks a big one. They are good fins, but I will find a domestic producer. Screw them and the Chineese.
there is no such thing as 'local' everything is made somewhere else than shipped and assembled . Your local board maker didn't blow the foam, the retail boardies you got, got the bolt of fabric from a sweatshop, the base for your surfwax came from an oil well in Saudi Arabia Welcome to globalization I prefer VALUE (price plus quality), give me a worthwhile product at a reasonable price. On that note, I try and not go with big name surfboards, but support the local guy. if they dont have a retail setup, they can usually outprice the big names in the retail space
support any and all dudes doing something different, local or not. I like what all the local shapers/designers have been putting out around southern new england, and I dig the guys that are trying new things out west. As someone that isn't really "from" somewhere, I have a pretty open mindset when it comes to where my gear (surf, ride, climb, whatever) is produced. I will not support any company/shaper/designer putting **** out just to make a buck, there has to be some level of craftmanship involved - edit: I also like to research bigger companies to see what they are doing to create a sustainable business model. might sound cliche, but I like how patagonia strives to put out a quailty product with a smaller footprint, and how they market worn wear, create opportunities to educate people how to repair their gear, and create a brand through quality instead of quantity
My "local" shaper lives in MD. I buy hand shaped boards made in the USA (well, mostly made in the USA). There are probably a couple shapers in the CHS area that could do it, but my current shaper makes boards that work really well for a great price. I also try to buy gear through my local shop as much as possible, but that is not always reasonable from a selection standpoint.
Yeah, in a nutshell, that is what I was saying in the other thread that made me post this one. Agreed.
Yeah, I agree. It makes me feel less guilty riding my pu foam/fiberglassed/carbon finned wave riding craft, wearing my petro based surf shorts as I check the surf from my gas guzzling SUV. Any way I can reduce my guilt in the demise of our planet is great, as long as I don't have to stop shredding 23 footers anytime soon. I think the next board I make, I am going over to the grainy side. Yes, I see a wooden board in my future. That and a hybrid vehicle. And I already wear killer stretchy board shorts from Billabong that are made from recycled plastic, so I am on my way!
i've had my best luck w/equipment by knowing (i think) what i want and by buying boards on a reg basis; maybe like 2 a year and build off my experience. anybody can sell me a stick but my best stuff and biggest headaches came from big labels…3 busted losts in a row…a c/i that was PERFECT…..a firewire with high trade-in value. these days i like firewire but stay tuned to this channel cause i ……digress. go off topic.
I'll second that. I'm willing to pay top dollar for a high quality item (whether it's surfing related or not); that's where I am in my life. I also am willing to buy from my local surf shop and local shapers as much as possible. That being said, I see no point in paying full price for any given item (like wetsuits) from my local shop when I can get the exact same thing for half the price online.
I have purchased a few boards off the rack at a local shop, I have one custom SB that I went straight through the shaper, and I have a new custom LB on the way as well. I got a good deal on all of them I feel, but I much prefer going through a local shaper now. For me it isn't as much about price as it is about quality and great service. I'll probably never buy another board off the rack again, but if I came across one that I just couldn't pass up because of the price, I can't say that I would pass it up. As far as gear and accessories, I'll buy from whoever has the best deal and is the most convenient for me. I don't live right on the beach, so it's sometimes easier to just buy it online and have it delivered. I'm all about supporting local businesses, but the prices can be seriously wack on things like wetsuits, fins, etc., If I was made of money I wouldn't care about how much extra they are charging, but i don't have it like that, so I'm going to be a smart shopper on the little things. Most shop owners don't have a good business model anyways, most of the time i'm disapointed at the selection and the lack of service. Nothing worse then trying to deal with a teenage kid who thinks he's the next Kelly Slater because he works at a surf shop and talks out of his a$$ about things he knows little to nothing about. I'd rather just buy on a website and have it sent to my doorstep to avoid the aggravation. What I would suggest to all you shop owners is.... GET A GOOD WEBSITE SETUP AND LET US ORDER FROM YOU ONLINE! Problem solved....
I just beat up all the Jr. High school kids and steal their board, leash, wax and lunch money. But I do make sure they are "locals".
