Mat surfing

Discussion in 'All Discussions' started by CYCOlogist, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. CYCOlogist

    CYCOlogist Member

    16
    Dec 7, 2019
    And a good one.
     
  2. CYCOlogist

    CYCOlogist Member

    16
    Dec 7, 2019
    This gives a bit of insight:

    http://www.surfmats.com/riders-guide.html
     
    Notaseal likes this.

  3. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    Mats go faster than surfboards because surfboards create more drag. We like that drag, because it allows us to do things on the wave face, and gives great control over our line and speed. Mats sacrifice that control for speed. Same thing with foil boards... they both can tap the wave energy before it breaks, and get up a lot of speed. But when the wave gets critical and super vertical there's not a whole lot you can do but go really fast in a straight line.

    Surfboards can't "catch that lift" until the face of the wave gets steep enough. Mats and foil boards get sort of "pushed along" rather than fall perpetually relative to the rising water.
     
    sheetglass, Wavestrom and Notaseal like this.
  4. La_Piedra

    La_Piedra Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2017
    There was a member named RodndTube here for a number of years, was a Paipo guy I think but experimented with other alternative craft including mats. Super knowledgeable guy, and friendly too. He disappeared a while back, sometime around the SI Trump Wars (of which I'm equally guilty).

    It's a shame he's gone, he was a great contributor and very wise about this type of stuff.

    anyways, he's got an old blog I refer to now and then. Maybe you can check it out and find what you're looking for.

    Enjoy: http://rodndtube.com
     
  5. La_Piedra

    La_Piedra Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2017
    dude check out YouTube with some of the experienced mat riders like Greenough and other modern guys, these guys are literally flying down the line past surfboards...it's really something to watch.
     
    Notaseal likes this.
  6. CYCOlogist

    CYCOlogist Member

    16
    Dec 7, 2019
    So interesting how that is. You would think that mats create more drag by being softer but I know that's not the case. Interestingly, the less inflation the faster.
     
  7. curl

    curl Well-Known Member

    136
    Apr 30, 2013
    Although its has been perpetuated in time , mats do not go faster than boards . The cavitation of the mats create the bubbles allowing less drag . The sanded finish boards and racing boats elaborated that theory but without edge control its meaningless inmo. One theory in double concaves is the cavitation creates drag which lifts the board more into the tube . Pumping in the barrel lifts the board setting the edge releasing the outside concave .
     
  8. curl

    curl Well-Known Member

    136
    Apr 30, 2013
    Inmo , v bottoms reduce surface , therefore reduces drag , which I do think makes faster boards . I went to high school in Pt Loma surfing and traveling with Steve Liss who introduced me to Greenough in the 60s . Surfed the ranch with him also , but that matt jive is questionable as control is key for speed . Showing my age now !
     
  9. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    I'm not following, curl... How does cavitation create lift and reduce drag? I am under the impression it does the exact opposite... cavitation increases drag and reduces lift. Fin designers in particular try to reduce or even eliminate cavitation to increase fin foil efficiency and increase the fin's ability to create lift. Maybe you're referring to bubbles under the bottom of boards designed for "aeration"... which supposedly does reduce drag. Jet (or Jick?) bottoms operate under this theory... air under the bottom of the board reduces drag so the boards go faster. I'm not convinced that works, though.

    Cavitation is something different... cavitation creates low pressure, which creates "suction" for lack of a better term. This force acts opposite of lift if it's under the bottom of a board, or if it's behind the trailing edge of a fin, increasing drag and reducing speed.

    Regarding v bottoms... they increase wetted surface as a displacement feature, reducing lift but having a stabilizing affect at speed. V bottoms are for control in big waves where you don't need to generate speed... you need to control it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  10. curl

    curl Well-Known Member

    136
    Apr 30, 2013
    All boards create cavitation , and your suction comment is perfect . A big wave board with flat bottom noses at extreme speeds feel exactly that way , not a good feeling . Most have a belly bottom . A smaller fin also has less interference drag but does have cavitation that produces drag and lift . A flat foil at higher speeds produces less of each but the design of the surface area is the key .As is the design of the board and the rail .That has brought us to todays designs and shapes in general . The mat comment of cavitation is opposite of fluid dynamics but I have seen them flying . Usually at the bottom of half of ways creating an air pocket under them . Its the best example of the least fluid dynamic product in the water going fast .
     
    antoine likes this.
  11. Zeroevol

    Zeroevol Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2009
    That looks like so much fun! I'd ride that bitch!!
     
  12. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    My new mat arrived today... coincidentally. MT5. Can't wait to try it out.
     
    Zeroevol and antoine like this.
  13. antoine

    antoine Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2013
    Ride report please
     
    Zeroevol likes this.
  14. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    Might be a while. But yea... I'll keep youse posted.