Official NFL Thread

Wow Emass,You should really got some more sleep.Peyton or Brady.Ginger or Mary Ann?Both are great.There is only one position in the Nfl where you can say this guy was the best of all timeand that would be Jerr Rice.All other discussions are debatable.

 

Regular season stats.

Tom Brady: 63.7% completion percentage, 44,806 yards, 334 TDs, 123 INTs, 23 fourth quarter comebacks and 37 game winning drives.

Peton Manning: 65.2% completion percentage, 59,487 yards, 436 TDs, 209 INTs, 38 fourth quarter comebacks and 49 game winning drives.

Tom was fortunate to start off his career with one of the best Patriot defenses ever, which has continued to be a relatively strong force in the league. Manning hasn't been blessed with a strong defense until arriving in Denver. Year after year, Brady gets to work behind a top-5 caliber offensive line, while Manning worked behind Jeff Saturday and that's about it. Think about all the stud wide outs that Tom has worked with. Now, think about all the stud wide outs that Peyton has worked with. Post season stats? Personally, post season stats measures the team more than a specific player. Take a look at AP - will his mediocre post season stats tarnish his amazing season(s)? No, because we all know AP is stuck on a crap team that only made the playoffs because of purple Jesus' talents.

Aside from rings and post season statistics, the only thing Tom has on Peyton is Giselle and you really can't argue with that.

 

Making alot of great points here.Emass,What is the only team Brady has a losing record against?

 

And again. You take Brady out of the equation and they are still a play off team. Take Peyton out and they are bottom of the league.
You say Brady is at the peak of his career. And yet he has not won a Super Bowl since 05. But then you use Super Bowl's as the standard to grade QB's? I'd say Bray peaked 02-05 and dropped off since.

You use certain stats when they help you, but ignore then when they don't. Stats don't tell the whole story in football. If they did, you would say nothing about your boy Tebow except that he's the worst QB ever.

 

Brady is just unlucky to have played at the same time as Manning. If he played during any other generation he'd have a chance to be the best in the league at the time he played. But he was never the best QB in the league, always 2nd best.

 

Get all the sleep I need, brah! I concur with Rice. What a career. Dude even tears rugs up on Dancing With the Stars. He is definitely best WR all-time. Although I do love the original Wes Welker: Steve Largent.

Montana's receiving corps was unreal, AND he had Craig coming out of the backfield for flares.

 

This is all fun discussion and we all stick up for our teams of course. You guys seem like knowledgeable football fans so let's keep this going.

You guys have to decide what the rubric is here for this designation of top QB. Is it regular season stats? Value to team? Super Bowls? Playoff performance? Head to head?

Aside from rings and post season statistics, the only thing Tom has on Peyton is Giselle and you really can't argue with that. - I'll take Bridget Moynahan over Giselle any day. You can have her.

Personally, post season stats measures the team more than a specific player.
- Yeah, this really has no value other than being your own opinion. So regular season wins are all about the individual? If anything, your "go-to guys" stepping up is far more critical in the post-season. If the plays aren't made, you don't survive and you're on vacation playing golf.

You use certain stats when they help you, but ignore then when they don't.
- Not true. I've pulled out just about all the stats in existence in both players' careers by the end of this post. Full disclosure, brah.

Stats don't tell the whole story in football. - 100% correct. Wins do. Brady has a far better winning percentage in the regular season, blows away Manning's post-season record and also has the most playoff wins in history, as well as having more than 2x as many head-to-head wins. "We sure are glad we drafted this guy 1st overall and that he's got the best regular season stats ever. Who cares that he's been sub-par in the post-season?" - said no GM/head coach/owner ever.

Take Brady out of the equation and they are still a playoff team. - the one season he was out of the equation they did not make the playoffs. As for speculation if it happens again? Let's avoid armchair assumption and stick to verifiable facts as there's over a decade of them for each player.

Brady peaked 02-05 and has dropped off since. - Wow. So the arguable "best season in history" in 2007 is an indicator of a sharp drop off. Brady's 5 best stat years have been his last 5 seasons. Manning had a superb comeback in 2012 and I was very pleased to see it. However, statisticians would content that Manning had his best years 2004-06 and has experienced a steady decline since (not incl. last season).

REGULAR SEASON COMPARISON (since Peyton's regular season performance was so emphasized in the rebuttals of my posts and Brady's most-ever postseason wins aren't that notable)

WR personnel
Who are these superstar receivers that Brady has been gifted with? Moss was with Brady for just 3 years, having one amazing year and two great years. He was already a veteran superstar upon arrival in NE.
Deion Branch left NE in the middle of his prime and never had a season for Seattle like his first few in NE. Brady made him great. In his 2007 banner season, he had only one receiver returning from the previous year (Gaffney - 11 catches for 142 yards in '06). He got Moss, yes, but turned Welker into a 3x NFL receptions leader and perhaps a HOF player, doubling his catches & yards from the year before in his first Patriot season. Brady went 17-2 winning the SB in the 2004 season when his leading receiver had 56 catches. Brady had one receiver with one 1,000-yard season (Brown in 2001) before Moss/Welker arrived in 2007. In 2010, Welker was the leading receiver (by far) with 848 yards yet Brady had a rating of 111.0 with 36 TD a mere 4 INT. C'mon.

Has Manning had to put up with new receivers every couple years? Not with Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne who were with Manning for years & stayed healthy. Each went I believe 8+ years missing 0 or 1 game per season. Manning threw to the same two primary targets for nearly a decade when Brady had to manufacture receivers from nothing in most cases and then keep getting new guys unfamiliar with his system. The turnover at all positions in the NE Patriots system from year to year is astounding. Manning never had to deal with that. Brady's OL, WR, and RB help has been a revolving door his whole career.

Running game support
Brady's had a 1,000-yard rusher only 4 seasons of 12. Manning? 11 seasons of 14 having a 1,000-yard rusher. No doubt a running back does well with a passing threat taking snaps, but it cuts both ways. How's that play-action coverage from the defense looking deep on 3rd and short when you have a guy busting loose for 1,300-1,500 yard seasons? How about 2nd and short from the shotgun? Does the defense want to keep conceding first downs on dive plays until they yield a TD instead of foregoing the deep coverage to stop the rush?

Offensive line support
Who composes this so-called amazing offensive line for Brady? His OL has ALWAYS been hurt. When your 3rd left tackle is protecting your blindside, you're going to tend to hurry the pass. Brady has been sacked 303 times in 177 games, and Manning 252 times in 224 games. They're equally mediocre rushers although they've both improved steadily in that area.

On to defense...
Only 3 seasons has Manning's offense had greater Time-of-Possession than Brady's. Several of those years it was by a landslide towards the way of the Patriots. When your defense is on the field for far less plays and far less time, how do you think they'll play? Keep in mind that the Pats D personnel has also been a revolving door throughout Brady's career.

Next? THE DOME FACTOR (half of Manning's career games have been indoors in "perfect weather")
Not including the 2013 season, Manning's monthly record outdoors:
His winning percentage outdoors is .649, but it drops each month, according to the Elias Sports Bureau -- .700 in September, .680 in October, .655 in November and .565 in December/January (13-10, including 0-3 in January).

Imagine paddling in winter water for a few minutes at a time without gloves. How good would your paddling be? How well could you move your hands? The how about 70 degree water (temp in a dome)? QB's don't want to wear a glove so all they have is blowing warm air on their hands and putting them in the waist cuff between plays. There is no rain, no wind, and no cold in a dome. Forget hands and ball flight, how is footing in a dome compared to slippery grass or divots? How about hitting the cold, frozen ground on a sack or knockdown?

Don't start with the fact that his 2012 season in Denver was among his best ever. Most all of his games were in great to perfect weather in Denver compared to poor weather (1 cold, 2 windy). In 31 career games in the wind, his QBR is 83.5, with 44 TDs vs. 32 INTs. HE'S ONLY PLAYED 13 GAMES IN THE COLD. In only 8 career games in precipitation, his rating is 83.8 with 11 TD and 10 INT. Brady in precipitation? 15 games, 93.1 rating, over 4,000 yards, 21 TD and only 7 INT. Imagine playing a full season in precipitation and putting up those stats. Official NFL stats show that Tom Brady's career rating is 96.6. Windy game QBR? In 63 games, 98.4, not to mention 123 TD and only 36 INT. Cold games for Brady? 41 games, 95.1, 74 TD, 24 INT (Shown here: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5228/splits?year=career).

Brady's never had a bad regular season. Brady won a Super Bowl his "rookie" year (1 game and 3 passing attempts played the previous year). Manning's rookie year was terrible. 71.2 rating and 28 INTs to 26 TDs. Despite having a 1,100+ yard rusher in 2001, Manning's 23 INT to 26 TD did not help the Colts' 6-10 record. He was 3-13 in that awful rookie season. Brady has never had a losing season. Brady is 136-39 and Manning is 154-70 in the regular season. Brady wins and has always done so consistently. He doesn't have bad games and very seldom makes errors.

You don't want to talk about 17-7 in the post-season vs. 9-11 and 3 Super Bowl wins (5 appearances) to 1 win (2 app.)? Ok, we won't. We also won't talk about the 9-4 head-to-head advantage that Brady has vs. Manning. We stuck to the all-important regular season in the very factual post above, all because you said we needed to.

 

Yeah, brah. I'd call 3 rings unlucky too!

 

Emass,Denver is the only team that has a winning record against Brady.They travel to New England again this year.That should be one fun game to watch with Wes coming back.Talk about ratings and a storyline.As for post season stats then,where would you put someone like Walter Payton because he only has 1 ring or Jim Brown and Barry Sanders.Is Terry Bradshaw better then Brady because he has 4 rings ?

 

As much as I would love to go line-by-line, I really just don't have the time. I actually started to compose a really bad ass response, but shortly realized that I have better things to do.

The New England Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since 2004.

Now, I would like to conclude this post with following quotes:

"If you ain't first, you're last" (Ricky Bobby)
"There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game and that is first place" (Vince Lombardi)

You will never see a Ricky Bobby quote paired up with a Vince Lombardi quote again. On the same note, you will never see a person pick Bridget over Giselle again.

[video=youtube;p4W3MUz6yGc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4W3MUz6yGc[/video]

 

It will be an interesting game for all those reasons. We are talking about QBs and not RBs. QB is clearly the most crucial position in the sport.

I've given you loads of justification for regular season prowess and post-season prowess for Brady is unquestionable. If Bradshaw had comparable regular season stats them he'd be in that conversation but he's not. 14-5 playoff record with 30 TDs in an era where it was MUCH harder to be a QB plus 4 SBs puts him on the all-time list but not at the top sum total. Montana is best SB QB ever going 4-0 with 11TD and no INT. He was 16-7 in playoffs and Brady arguably has slight edge overall for playoffs but by the arguments of a few of you Montana would lose credibility based on having the best receiver of all time, one of the best ever dual threat running backs plus one of the best coaches ever as well as all-time defenders like Lott.

You're being selective about picking battles with this debate while I'm giving thorough top to bottom facts that display the truth. Manning is not ahead of Brady and Montana when he's 9-11 in playoffs with 8 one and done playoff seasons. Would love your responses on the litany of fodder for Manning's some/weather argument.

Sweetness was best running back ever. Brown was before his time and may still rush for 1,000 yards today
If either of them threw 60 halfback passes a game then we could include them in convo of best all-time passer.

 

You say we all stick up for "our" teams, but I do not. I actually don't have a team. I love football, but I'm not a fan of any team. Of course I want the Giants and Jets to win when they play, but I really don't give a sh*t.

But since you love stats... ELI Manning is the best 4th qtr QB of all time... And Sanchez is the best Road QB in the playoffs.

 

Like I said before you can debate the qb position.Ijust can't wait for the season to start.Especially how we loss.I enjoy watching Brady play.Guys a legend just like Peyton.I became a Bronco fan right before Elway got there and when he retired there was a giant void.It's great to see Manning lead this team.

 

Hey Nynj come jump on the Bronco wagon,It's going to be a fun ride this year.

 

Nice vid,Dlrouen your bringing back some bad flashbacks for me.

 

I totally understand, GoodVibes. Remember the Lee Evans drop in the 2011 AFC Championship? How about Billy's wide kick? I'm sure Spicoli does.

Your Broncos definitely had a great year, just think back to Week 15. I was at that game and needless to say, it was very disappointing for Raven fans alike. Just when you think you're playing at "championship level," Peyton comes to town and (temporarily) squashes all hope.

"You’ve got to go out and show them that I’m a different creature now, then I was five minutes ago, cause I’m pissed off for greatness. Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre.” Ray Lewis

We were certainly a different creature in Denver, New England and of course, New Orleans.

[video=youtube;Rqq1TEGJO1I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqq1TEGJO1I[/video]

 

Sorry to bump this, but the season is almost here and I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread. For those fans out there; I wish you and your team the best of luck this year. The same goes out to the fantasy owners out there. It's going to be a great season!

The Ravens are going to repeat this season.

The Haitian All-Stars and the Carolina Beach NObamas will be fantasy champs this season!

 

I'm still not over the Penguins collapse last year, wounds are still tender, i'm not ready to care about them yet.

 

Sooooooooo...What happened to TEBOW?!
Emass & Dlrouen, I don't mean to say I told you so... But I TOLD YOU SO!

 

So long sucka! HAHAHA