people at the mercy of a gov't gone "fowl"

Discussion in 'Mid Atlantic' started by njsurfer42, Sep 14, 2010.

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  1. aka pumpmaster

    aka pumpmaster Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    And what are the odds of it even going extinct? I could see if they totally relaxed all restrictions and let people run wild completely tearing the place up. even then I doubt it would go extinct.
     
  2. wallysurfr

    wallysurfr Well-Known Member

    918
    Oct 23, 2007
    It would probly just move it's nesting ground to a place more protected. Like Pea Island I think they mentioned in the video is a huge bird sanctuary?

    What really gets me is they are physically stopping/killing/trapping this birds natural predators from getting it. Total Contradiction!
     

  3. leethestud

    leethestud Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2010
    i doubt they are even good eating. Probably all gristle. F em.
     
  4. aka pumpmaster

    aka pumpmaster Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2008

    Contradiction and hypocrisy are the ways of the enviro-nazi.
     
  5. njsurfer42

    njsurfer42 Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    i'm going to ignore the fact that you're basically saying that people w/ handicaps don't have the right to access the same stretches of beach that non-handicaps do (b/c they can't walk as far).
    closing areas where nesting/breeding birds are would be fine & prob. wouldn't get an argument from most folks if 2 things happened: 1) you could pass thru or by those closed areas to get to the open areas on the other side of the enclosure (this is why the cape point area is currently closed). this option is presently prohibited under the current "agreement." & 2) the draconian procedures for dealing w/ a violation of the enclosures were softened. the enclosures are massive, but might contain only a small number of nests, b/c the size/space requirements are insane to begin w/ & then a few bad apples get drunk & vandalize it.

    as i've said before, there needs to be a RATIONAL compromise...the viability of the piping plover is not at stake w/ these closures. it, & it's endangered brethren, nest on a thousand different islands up & down the east coast in the summer months before heading back to south america.




    i'm glad you realize this fact...ORV access & use is a part of hatteras island culture & that culture should not be forced into extinction b/c of the irrational demands of a small group of people who have no historical/cultural knowledge (nor do they desire any) of the area in question. to say that the locals don't understand the situation or desire the birds to become extinct (as some have) is to insult the intelligence of & degrade the people who populate the banks.
     
  6. sjserpe

    sjserpe Well-Known Member

    54
    Sep 28, 2009
    Compromise, braddas. dump a bunch of money on local plover/endangered species protection, further education on the potential detriment to the ecosystem, ORV Permits and tighter off-road restrictions.. but still with the access that makes the beaches such a prime destination. Raise local tax to fund protection/restoration, since the local revenue will increase with greater tourist population.

    It seems heinous to me to destroy (i don't care if you think it won't, you're ignorant if you do) the economy and lifestyle an already struggling community of human beings by enacting a near pointless and conspiracy-based piece of legislation that has been PROVEN to have little to no positive effect. However, i also find it preposterous to let a few ignorant ORV users cause serious detriment to such a beautiful ecosystem, ruining such a wonderful part of the East Coast for the tens of thousands that look forward to the next time they get to travel there.

    I wouldn't expect people that didn't understand what ORV access means to the locals of the Outer Banks and to the people that go there, and thus the economy and way of life; to support major, life-changing, decisions about the future of said people. But i see that happening in this forum (not pointing any fingers.) So why don't you let the people who do understand why ORV beach access is a necessary part of life in the OBX find a solution that reflects both the rights of the human, and the rights of the plover?? Thank you.
     
  7. ND081

    ND081 Well-Known Member

    900
    Aug 7, 2010
    they need to do what we do here on lbi. we fence off the area on the beach closer up to the dune, depending on where the clovers currently are. there are people monitoring where each nest is, and how long it will be there, so its not the entire island at one time. and even on the beaches with the fencing there's still plenty of room for people to chill on (you already cant drive on the beach)
     
  8. live aloha

    live aloha Well-Known Member

    508
    Oct 4, 2009
    Unstated assumptions.

    Okay, Einstein, could you please tell the rest of us what lead you decide that everyone here is some sort of Captain Planet enemy? By climbing up on your little podium and talking down to everyone, you have already (1) insulted everyone here and (2) killed any chance of your audience taking you seriously. Try exercising a little tact, and maybe people will in turn respect the brain power that you so humbly claim to possess. I am not necessarily opposed to your side of the argument, but I would NEVER side with you because you have convinced me that you do not understand how to discuss anything. Throwing $5 words around like some arrogant Harvard grad does not make you intelligent.
     
  9. aka pumpmaster

    aka pumpmaster Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    Wow! Just WOW! Common sense.
     
  10. Recycled Surfer

    Recycled Surfer Well-Known Member

    488
    Jan 1, 2010
    Love the smell of race gas - only one things better - thats NITRO - but it does feel like you got maced if get a little too much. The big boys are comming to E-town next month if you need a nitro fix. Also the modifiers are at Atco Sunday with the nostaglia races but I think the surf will be too good to go. :D
     
  11. MATT JOHNSON

    MATT JOHNSON Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2009
    Nah if I need a fix for fast cars and fast money I'll go to NYC . I sould my Coupe 2 years ago and havnet decided what I want to build next
     
  12. AVON RIDER

    AVON RIDER Member

    15
    Jul 31, 2010
    People you need to fight back.

    First, the people that support this live or vist the area.
    Make their lives a living hell.
    Shunn them at every turn.
    If they are in line behind you in a store start talking to the casher or counter person.
    A long talk.
    Tell the store owner who they are if they Bit-h.
    If they are parked some were park as close as you can to the drivers door with in the law.
    Gee my car stalled at this red light, so sorry you are stuck behind me for awhile,
    I don't know officer it started just as you showed up. thanks for coming.
    Do you know who that is behind me, they want to close down our town and your job to save birds.
    Just a few more minutes please, I'll get to you as soon as I finish what I'm doing here.
    To bad your kid did not make the team.
    Your Mom or Dad is one of the bird lovers. You must leave my house right now. Do not come back.
    You sure you want to eat here the people making your food don't really like you to much.
    Openly confront them. Do not be affraid. Every where you see them. Every time.

    Make going out side the worst thing in their lives.
    Protest them, gather out side of their houses or work.
    Put their belives and names on a sign and carry it out side of their jobs.They do it all the time.
    Do not do business with any buniness that employes them or sells to them.
    If you see them in a store, go in tell the owner,manager that you and your friends will no longer be coming to their store and why. Clearly,calmly explain to the manager/owner what is going on.

    Its best if you do it right in front of the Kook.
    Then they understand that you are TARGETING THEM PERSONALLY.
    See the fear in THEIR eyes now.
    You are the power, you are the many, they are the few.
    You have done nothing illegal. You are boycotting. Perfectly legal.
    If they come in a store your in, leave with your friends right away.
    Stop at the Managers office on the way out.
    Stop by the Store you are boycotting, take your money out of your pocket show it to the manager,
    tell him you won't be spending it in his store. Then walk out. Do this every time you pass his store.

    Before you know it they will be telling you that you can't tell them what to do.
    Remind them, but its ok for you to tell us what do to, right !
    Pick out the biggest Kook and put the screws to them every where all the time, till you break them.
    The rest will shut up and go away.

    Same thing with the Park Rangers.
    If some nut in Cali can tell the Police in his store to leave because he does not like them and his customers won't come in when they are in his store, you can do the same to the Park Rangers.
    Get out..... you are not good for my business,town,kids,family,friends or the animals that live here with us.

    Get every body in town together and just walk down the beach.
    Bring your video camara.

    You are fighting for your lives,homes,kids and your country.
    Like that one lady said he Husband did not fight WWII for this.
    Nor did Millions of others. I bet there is one or more vets in your family, ask them what they think.
    The people they fought are the people in charge of your country right now.
    They where not affraid to fight for you so why are you affraid to fight for yourselfs.....Rob

    P.S.

    Andrewk529

    You do know that in the book that made Jonh Audubon famous 'Birds of America", every single bird that he drew in the book was KILLED so he could draw them.
    He himself was famous for the way he could make them look life like by the wire he jammed into them.
    He liked birds......alot. He liked money....... more.
    He was NOT in to saving birds or any animal. That came long after his death. 54 years for that matter.
    People just took his name and used it because of the fame of his book with the murdered birds.
    He was also a animal pelt hunter/seller to England.
    Not who you thought he was. Huh ?
    "Humans need to mitigate the existential threats...." of dumb asses that talk out of their hat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  13. MDSurfer

    MDSurfer Well-Known Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Given a choice. . .

    Given a choice between a truck and a bird, I'll take the bird every time.
     
  14. ocripcurrent

    ocripcurrent Well-Known Member

    797
    Feb 27, 2008
    Im staying quiet about this one, especially after the last debate. The only thing I will say is that this is a one-sided-opinion documentary.
     
  15. andrewk529

    andrewk529 Well-Known Member

    261
    Sep 3, 2010
    I am just stating the scientific rationalisation behind thebeach closings, hopefully individuals can view the issue objectively.

    The problem with your assertion is that humans cannot control where the birds/turtles nest. I am not surprised the public has trouble grasping the concept of species managment; humans are the apex predators now, and must take the place of certain species which were present in the past; this means we need to control ferrell cats,foxes and raccoons.

    I have addressed the reason why nesting birds and turtles need zero human interference in a previous post; Let me reiterate, nesting shorebirds experience signifigant stress when any percieved threat arises. This leads to regurgitation of food intended for chicks, faining and sometimes nest abandonment. If you had a small highway through a colony of nesting birds, the stress would cause undue harm. Again, I invite you to study the ecology of shorebirds. The notion that driving on the beach is some ancient OBX tradition is absurd; automobiles became prevelent on the island in the 60-70's, only 50 years ago at the maximum. Birds on the other hand have been around for millenia, what about their rights? The small group of individuals you speak of are scientists( the people who actually study the issue) To deny their statements is utter stupidity; would you want a truck driver teaching biology?

    The cause effect relationship between percieved negative ecomonic impact, and the closing of a small stretch of the Outer Banks is debatable. Could it be the depression we're currently enveloped in decreasing business? possibly; What would the actual net business decline be? I would assert that it would be negligible in comparison to the preservation of threatned species. "Bird lovers" spend a lot of money too.

    Uhh...I clearly stated my "assumptions" which are supported by empirical data; I am not here to placate anyones' insecurities, or to be politically correct.

    AVON RIDER:

    I never once mentioned John Audubon; Again, his collections took place over 200 years ago. Long before the majority of the species on North America were endangered. Your connection between history and contemporary issues is erroneous. Audobon's collection and displayal of species furthed the conservationist cause within the public.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  16. intheeye

    intheeye Well-Known Member

    48
    Feb 9, 2009
    how easy it is to collect and present data that only supports ones own opinion, vision, etc.

    'i am right, and everyone else is wrong'

    andrew whoever you are and people like you are turning people off to all this environmental and conservation stuff. there's two or three or more sides to everything, not just one view, one vision.

    later
     
  17. leethestud

    leethestud Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2010
    andrew,

    apparently there is an endangered species of earthworm living in your back yard. We are going to have to go ahead and condemn the house. You have 48 hours to vacate, or everyone on the property will be arrested for trespassing and tried in a federal court of law. Thanks for your hard earned tax money.

    Thanks again,
    Big Gov't

    How do you like dem apples, andrew? Put yourself in someones else's shoes. Stop being such a hippy cry baby. Its like trying to convince my roommate that "green power" comes through the same F'ing wires as regular power, but you suckers always fall for that crap. Oh no, a bird is dieing. People kill birds for sport in carolina. Whats next? Murder sentences for hunters?

    GO SURFING WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!!
     
  18. andrewk529

    andrewk529 Well-Known Member

    261
    Sep 3, 2010
    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money


    I personally put nature over economic interests, or deluded pseudo-cultural traditions.
     
  19. andrewk529

    andrewk529 Well-Known Member

    261
    Sep 3, 2010
    If you have ever taken a basic ecology course you would understand the fallcy of that statement. Game birds and shore birds are different entities; there are regulated bag limits implaced on Migratoy Birds. I am an avid hunter who would never indiscriminately kill an endangered or threatened specie.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  20. leethestud

    leethestud Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2010
    Ok, professor higher-than-thou. I know sh!t that would make your head spin, and my degree brings in more than just an attitude problem, but IT ISNT RELATED TO SURF FORECASTING, 8===> head.

    i want you to hang out at ramp 30 and tell everyone on the way in how you feel. $100 says you end the day on the table of either a taxidermist, a physician, or a mortician.
     
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