once in cape may we were all blown out of the water by a popout longboard,not even really a surfboard in my purist opinion.SURFACE. Then again in cape may recently by a guy on a short fishy nsp. this is unbelievable;they work,i guess,sort of,but why would anyone,especially these two older guys,who are obviously skilled, ride this popout junk? i want to see them on a Bing longboard or an In The Eye fish... there's also been times when i've seen guys on the fake chinese old american brand logo boards ripping,too... sad. i believe they'd surf better and have more fun on a board shaped by a surfboard shaper if they got a board that suits them... the cape may plastic toy board older guys ripping thing boggles my mind.
Many American's are drawn that way because of the price. It's like people going to Walmart for better deals instead of supporting the local mom and pop shops. Now, there aren't any mom and pop shops. The crazy thing is that a locally shaped board is not much more expensive than a crappy popout. Let's hope these Chinese popouts don't put shapers out of business. The cheap Chinese labor has already killed the mom and pop businesses.
yeah, this goes A LOT DEEPER than just surfboards. that being said, I wouldnt ride one, but most of those pop-outs are cnc'd within a hundredth of an inch to be "perfect" my old man shaped 90% of my quiver and they are far from perfect. I wouldnt have it any other way.
Proper board design is a craft that takes skill, knowledge, creativity, and some risk taking. Many people just don't care enough about minor details in their surfboard to make it worth their while for them. Also, for example, I won't take out certain boards in my quiver on a shallow shore pound day, just cause I don't want to risk the damage. Mom and Pop shops must provide service above and beyond the chain stores in order to survive. I am sure we all have had experiences in surf shops that provide great service, good selection and have workers that have a good knowledge base. I also have walked into various shops just looking for someone who wasn't stoned and in need of a shower.
No offense, but maybe local shapers should bring their pricing down. Granted, I have known my shaper for years, but he has me OUT THE DOOR, $300 with art. Brand spanking new shortboard... The going rate for a plus one or a merrick is $550-$650. So, my shaper makes BETTER boards, at about half the price. I've sat with him while he shaped for me. He really gets the boards done in not even a whole 8 hour work day. Yes, there is drying and it takes a week or so for the final product, but the ACTUAL amount of time that a GOOD shaper puts into a board, is not up in the $600 range. And if they spent that much time, they are probably still learning. But hey, Im just saying. Im no shaper, but I run a business too. I run restaurants, and I love to get local products... Local produce, fish etc... But when local vendors and suppliers have pricing that is 2 or 3 times the going rate from U.S. Foods, ya know what, we all have to go corporate some times. If buying organic local produce kills my budget, im not doing it.... Its the american way. Competetive business. And there is a reason why local shapers have been losing the battle. Cause "Pop-out" technology is not nearly as bad as some people think... Yeah the NSPs and stuff can be crap... But look at boards like firewire etc... They are all machine built, based on EXACT specs by the shaper etc... So really, they have eliminated almost all the "hand crafting" etc... so while you are buying a great design by a great shaper, that shaper actually never touched your board, or even saw it.... Its called technology.... Guys arent going to be hand shaping logs one by one out on their deck and become Al Merrick. You gotta keep up with the times if you do it as a business. If you do it as a hobby, take your time, enjoy local shaping and creating art etc... But business is business.... Why do you think the ONLY board rentals in all of Hawaii are like 95% NSP long boards.... IN HAWAII of all places... The home of the "Locals"... Yet, there is no shaper, on ALL THE ISLANDS who can out bid NSP for like 10,000 rental boards/????? You cant complain about corporations taking over the game if no one is willing to compete with them... If surf shops need sturdy boards, that dont ding that last long, NSP is better than a local shaper... the boards SUCK... but they are investments, for the shops, just like our own boards are our own "investments"... Which is why almost everyone on here has asked the Epoxy question... Or asked about firewires, cause they know, hey, over a couple years, this could save me money.... No one is really that psyched about the technology, its more the fact that they dont ding, and you may be able to get a longer life outta them... Again, I love my local shaper... He kills it... But he also KILLS the competition by providing a better product at a much more reasonable price....
Good points BUT I think you have to include the 'lemming factor'. Alot of people buy boards because they see it hyped in the mags or vids so that's all they know, or they are status seekers who just have to have what the top pros ride.
looks like you two have some baggage.... ill stop this Christian vs atheist sh!t before it starts- you both suck for thinking that I (or we) give a damn how you live your lives. Keep it to yourselves. How about politics? Lets have a long winded argument with the outcome of... oh wait... we are all screwed! SURFBOARDS...?
huh? no,it boggles my mind that a highly skilled surfer rides a surface or an nsp. how is that judgemental or have anything to do with me being a Christian? boggles the mind means i see these guys in cape may and wonder why? i care because it seems so unusual. i wonder. mind-boggling. don't usually see the top guys riding those. ok?
True, of course this is a business. Everyone's 'branded' to some extent. It's the goal of any business to make you ;want' their product. The next goal is to make you think you 'need' their product. The final step in superb marketing is when their product becomes the 'destination' for the consumer. Surfing's no different, it's just packaged in a different candy bar wrapper. Heck, the only thing that the surf mags ever do is flog products, that's all they really have ever done. Over 60% of the 'content' of any surf mag is ads. People, esp younger consumers, suck it up. What's Slater wearing. It's only cool to have all-white boards. Rip Curl black shorts because Da Hui does it in the ads. Hyper Flex $ 80.00 board shorts 'cause that's what Machado sports in the print ads. Amazing. Surf businesses work hard every day to get consumers branded. Just like other businesses. Meaning, you 'Xerox' something you don't copy it. You 'Fedex' it you don't overnight it. You ask for a 'Kleenex' not for a tissue. These companies are Mission Accomplished in marketing when these types of aspects are achieved. Who has ever ordered a Rum & Pepsi....? As an example ? One of these days, people might say hey man I'm going to get my CI, instead of saying hey man I'm going to get my surfboard.......and everyone will know what they mean ........now that's powerful stuff in the biz world.... My other comment in this interesting thread is: If surfboards were mass-produced & machine-cut, and always had been...would anyone care now ? Would anyone go the other way & start hand-shaping ....? Just something to kick around....
I don't have a problem with machine cut per se, my biggest issue is that MOST big name brands don't work as well in our waves as a custom from a local shaper. I'm hoping that boards will be like cars. You want a big name board that works ok (like a Nissan Z) but the guy who REALLY knows boards will go for the hand-built, finely tuned board from the local shaper (ala Ferrari). As far as the OP goes..it boggles my mind too that someone who really knew their stuff would would ride an NSP.
if they had always been machine-shaped they wouldn't be any good because the machine bases them off of the past 50 years of trial-and-error hand-shaping success,so i can't answer your question,but if your premise were possible,then,no,no one would care,and no one would shape by hand. my shaper makes the entire board by hand, just for me and the waves I want it for and the way I want to ride them. a machine ain't doing that for my 6'5" 250 lbs in new jersey beachbreak
cresto, noted. How do you guys feel about CI? Your only fooling yourselves if you think Al touches your boards at all. He made one whip, programmed his machines, and gets back to helping kelly and mochado pretend they are soul shapers. At least he keeps it all stateside... or maybe thats what justifies the $700 price tag...? look closely at most companies that make a pro model board, it likely says "designed in usa, made in _____stan" along the stringer. I have rented and rode a 5'10" 7s superfish in perfect head high playa grande and it was a damn good time. 3 days later rented another 5'10" superfish down in jaco and had the exact same feel. I would never buy one, but still, hard to argue with results. Who knows, maybe those dudes killing it on pop-outs were traveling?
these weren't 7s,they were surface and nsp,but it is possible....hmm...really good point... by the way,yankee,your last post was fantastic,thanks
Exactly, Zach. It's good to see an objective view on this topic. Usually, I find the negative comment's about them more emotional than factual. I don't own any because any shape that I'd be interested in is too close in price to the real thing. Two points, above all others, are common complaints made by pop-out critics. The first being they're "soulless." Honestly? I mean...really? Coming from guys that purchase fiberglass and foam, it seams a bit like that rock comes from the guy in the glass house. Most surfboards these days are made from preformed blanks, pretty much dictating the rocker and planshape. Then, they get often are shaped by somebody the buyer doesn't know or even spoken with. After the board is hand-shaped, it gets it's prefabbed fins and fin boxes. I know there's caveats to this generalization, but this is more often the case. I'm sure, if we dialed it back 60 years, our foam & fiberglass boards under 9' would be considered just as soulless by balsa riders. 60 years before that, if you didn't shape an Olo or Alaia out of Ulu, Koa or Wili-Wili wood in full ritual, it was soulless. Funny how times can change the meaning of a word. The second point is they steal jobs from working class shapers....specifically AMERICAN shapers. This point, I completely agree with. Personally, it's just unacceptable that surfshops put these on their floors.....even Firewire. They tried, but the labor & enviromental costs would've required the board costs to into the 4 figures range. So now, they get computer cut and hand-laid glass...overseas. In my opinion, foreign pop-outs shouldn't be able to be found in a true surf shop. Costco, perhaps? If they're as good as the advocates say they are, they won't mind picking up their board 2 isles over from the 120 oz can of baked beans they're buying for the cookout. The truth is pop-outs are here to stay. Who knows? In 60 years, maybe they'll be precision CAD boards that have been custom designed to your style & size. Maybe they'll perform better than any hand-shaped boards ever did and their owners will be calling the new hovercraft surfboards "soulless." On the other hand, there will always be local hand-shapers.....and as long as their designs work for me and the prices are within my means, they'll get my dollar. Just my 2 cents.
That's appreciated. I'm getting a lot out of reading this thread, esp this page. You guys make tremendous points. Good stuff.
