Now when we refer to the locals of Cape Hatteras are we referring to the Algonquian Indians? They were there long before "God's" manifest declaration that it was man's right to drive 4x4's on the beach. Put it in perspective people because there are hundreds of miles of untapped beach to surf along the island so rather then focus and lament upon the several miles that are shut down take solace in the many miles of beach the government has spared from development for us to enjoy. I don't hear any soul surfers or locals complaining when S-turns is firing
tho i can speak only for myself, no. i do not in any was support the president's misguided proposal to expand offshore oil drilling. i'm opposed to the idea now, was opposed to it 10 years ago, & will remain opposed to it 10 years from now. it's a bad idea. end of discussion. my point about cape hatteras being set up initially as a recreation area was intended to convey the idea that there should be some kind of RATIONAL compromise. what's currently going on (& has been going on for about 2 years now) is not rational by any means. it has effected the tourism down there (during high season) quite a bit. when i was there in june '09, the crowd was much lighter than previous years at the same time. it looked more like april or may than the end of june, crowd-wise. the towns there rely so heavily on tourism that to do something like this smacks of a complete disregard for fellow human-beings. the groups that sued the national park service didn't even try to sit down & reach a compromise, they went straight for the jugular & took it to court. this is not the local chapter for the audubon society that did this. these were people who do not live there, & are completely out of touch w/ the day-to-day lives of people who live & work to pay the bills. the lawyer who argued the case for the audubon society is from georgia, i believe. they call the initial agreement the "consent decree", which is misleading, b/c that name implies that both parties agreed to it. unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. the court gave the national park service an ultimatum: accept this plan, or every beach on the island will be closed to beach-goers. no walking, no fishing, no surfing...no access to the water of any kind from the land. ok, disclosure time: i'm biased. i admit it. i own a rental property in buxton. my numbers were significantly down thru the summer season. didn't pick back up until the fall (when nesting season ends). i also live year-round in a tourist town that could have this very thing happen to it b/c of these birds. it's unlikely, but possible.
Stop being liberal tree hugging ***s (you two know who you are)... not worried about all the other beaches that are not closed... that's not the point...no compromise is needed at all because it is a recreational area not a wildlife refuge. Can't you get it through your thick skull this is not it. Its not just a couple of miles that are temporarily closed. The Federal government NEVER gives back what it takes away (liberties & rights or physical property) and continually expands in size. If we consent to these couple of miles of beaches being closed without a fight then we will never get them back... the next step undoubtedly is more restrictions or more closings.
the only true invasive species of humans are the self-righteous blind faith anti-God anti-human religious fanatic 'enironmentalist' 'green' holier than anyone else blasphemers. this beautiful island of Hatteras has been tended and cared for by these people without you intruder invaders all these years.we don't need you or your 'help.'what makes you so special that you know better than us? there is no evidence.you are liars,you are hypocrites,you are wrong.
ECsponger you suck!!! "Save a bird destroy a town" These beach closures are killing local business owners. I have talked to many and they have felt the impact. Have you noticed how many restaurants are for sale and business closures. The locals are getting hurt by a bad economy and now this. Hey lets keep God out of this debate please . Talk about complicating a sensitive issue. He is not needed here. Gonna cook some plover tonight in a ceremonial dinner.
Another hard days work!!!!!!!!! she is KILLING a fox. for the full picture go here scroll down towards bottom
Quite the contrary - I am not aware of any of the above mentioned breaks being closed off to 4WD vehicles AND pedestrians due to bird or turtle nesting (S-Turns, Lighthouse and Frisco Pier). Moreover, each of those spots has drive-up parking and/or public parking areas and a simple 20 to 40 yd walk to designated as a wildlife refuge and the Cape Hatteras Seashore was established as a recreational area. Furthermore, the Audubon Society and its partners would like nothing more than to close the entire area off: "Approximately five dozen scientists have signed on to a letter drafted by Audubon North Carolina which solicited signers to add their support in asking the National Park Service to adopt the "highest degree of protection" listed in the US Geological Survey's management protocols that include full year round closure to all recreation -- both ORV and pedestrians -- of Bodie Island Spit, Cape Point, South Beach, Hatteras Spit, North Ocracoke and South Ocracoke. The protection called for also would limit recreational use of the remainder of seashore under National Park Service control to protect a "zone of the ocean backshore at least 10 meters wide and running the length of the site from recreation. This zone should be adjacent to the toe of the primary dune wherever a primary dune exists (i.e., recreation should be restricted to a corridor between mean high tide line and the edge of the zone of protected backshore)...Management should revert to Option A item 1 if plovers are documented in an area..." states the protocol for piping plovers. Option A item 1 is a complete closure of all potential nesting, roosting and foraging habitat. At the very least, states the letter, the "moderate level" of protection described in the protocol should be adopted. This measure also would close the areas to ORV use year round and keep boats" outside of 50 meters from the habitat at the sites, where applicable." "Pedestrians may be permitted within a narrow walking and sunbathing corridor extending landward from the mean high tide line, from sunrise to sunset, on the oceanside only," states the protocol. "Pets, kite-flying, Frisbee and ball-playing, fireworks, wildlife feeding and trash disposal should be prohibited." The protocol document also notes that the corridor could be narrowed or eliminated if necessary to prevent disturbance to plovers."Read the full text of the letter here. Next up could be Assateague National Seashore, from the Inlet and down through Chincoteague. P.S. I am actually a Puerto Rican living in Baltimore which serves as my base of operations for surfing throughout the USA and overseas. Sorry that my official place of domicile offends you and that it is considered material to this discussion. That would be as stupid as me or others disputing your arguments because you are a **** dragger. Neither attribute has standing in the discussion about what is going on down in Cape Hatteras.
You all can produce some maps and pictures, that's fine. Now, produce some charts and reports on how these closures directly link to local economic decline. Guess what, Tourism is down everywhere due to the national economy, not just OBX. They are hard to get to as it is, so I'm sure people are not as willing to go so far out of their way to get to remote locations. So what if your summer renter house is down? Are you really blaming that on these closures? I'm sure everyone wants to find a reason to blame their failed business or overpriced summer house low incomes on. Likewise. Was that an insult? Sorry to point out where you live. What are you even saying? Humans are the invasive species. Oh, and as well as all the dogs, cats, raccoons, horses, and fox that they brought along with them. (Historical information will explain on how fox and rabbit, etc. were brought to the cape and islands strictly for hunting purposes to begin with) This has nothing to so with trees (By the way, I LOVE trees) So what is this part of the argument? I agree the Feds walk all over rights that were set in place by our forefathers. BUT remember who was elected into office in 2000. THAT is the reason for our lost liberties and a blind ignorance to our constitution. If you voted for him once, shame on him. If you voted for him twice, shame on you. The OBX is a fickle place, and if someone does not govern it properly then it could very well be lost. What about when storms come and wash out the roads? What about the hurricane that separated Hatteras Landing from the cape? WHO fixes those problems, the residents? Keep 'em coming. I like debates.
you aren't debating,you know it all. Actually you are wrong.God created man in His image and gave us dominion,so we are not invasive,the universe was created for us by God. You think you are God,and that is false,so therefore you deny His existence. Ignorant.
There are tons of people that are not going to OBX because of the beach closures. It has had a direct bearing on my deciding not to trip down there during July & August (huge beach closure months) during potential TS events and a moderate affect in considering whether to make the annual early September trek - and a definite effect on some of people in our September group. Luckily for us this past year the wave set-up was in Rodanthe and most of the Cape Point area was open/wave accessible by our 3rd day. I expect an apology to the entire forum for making personal, derogatory statements based upon where one lives, their chosen faith or lack of faith, the color of their skin, the chosen means of riding the waves, etc. These attributes (not limited to the ones stated above) are immaterial to the topic at hand - beach/wave access.
yeah, seriously. EC if you learned your 'debate' style in school you need to go back and ask for a refund.
Wow! Both yourself and ECsponger are morons. ECsponger, the area was not setup for a refuge but for enjoyment by people (even benny rodndtube). rodndtube, you do live in Baltimore and I feel sorry for you. We should have closures to beaches just for people from Baltimore, Philly, and New York. We can call it a locals protected refuge. This locals refuge will keep the beach and ocean clean. Something has to be done. Right now all you bennys come down and leave your trash everywhere and pollute the water. I know your towns smell like piss and ****, but we don't want our break to be like your home. Thanks.
BennysLuvLiam, feel no sorrow for me, but take pity on yourself, for this discussion does not apply to you as your logic reveals you do not travel beyond your own little local break. Revel in being a big fish in a small pond (carp since you are carping?).
I'm a born nature lover and I've walked and surfed most of the Virginia side of Assateague. I see no reason to cut off any beach but I think its ok to cut off certain dune areas where wildlife do their thing. Its scary knowing how long an arm the Govt has and how they'd like to prohibit whatever they feel like. At Chinco we had to fight with the govt over closing all beach access to cars. Even driving on the refuge. Instead people can ride bike, walk or take a shuttle. Lazy Govt workers. Thankfully enough surfers and business owners were at the meeting and stopped the ridiculousness. I understand the need to cut down the amount of traffic on the refuge especially in the summer when we get all the extra tourists who dont seem to care about keeping the beach and refuge clean.
1st paragraph yes you are right 2nd paragraph NO, you are wrong. localism is stupid. if you have ever traveled to surf than your a hypocrite. ECsponger i respect your opinion... animals and tree's are awesome. however i have lived in buxton my whole life (17 years) and living in a small community you know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE whether or not you want to know. now listen to me when i say this PEOPLE COME TO HATTERAS FOR BEACHES other than that we have nothing.
i don't kno what kind of house you THINK i have, but it certainly isn't one of those overpriced monstrosities that litter nags head, kitty hawk, & parts of avon, buxton, & frisco. it's a very modest HOME set well back from the ocean. we're actually on the sound side in buxton. if anything, given the location & amenities provided, i under-charge. this is not a $5,000 per week rental. so even a small dip in figures could be disaster. it pays for itself at this point, but i'd like to be able to retire there in 30 years time & surf my remaining days away. if i can't afford to keep the house b/c no one comes to rent it, then i can't do that. & yes, i am blaming the dip in renters last year on beach access being restricted. i normally quite respect your opinions & positions on here, ecsponger, but your obstinance in this matter is astonishing. you've not made any valid points & have ignored the fact that it really boils down to the fact that there needs to be a compromise reached that allows both human & bird to thrive. the locals need to make their seasonal tourist dollars (there really is NO other industry on the island...everything revolves around tourism) & the birdies need to make baby birdies. surely there is SOME mutual agreement that can be reached to allow both. it may not be optimal for the birds or the humans, but that's what a compromise is: a mutually disappointing agreement. any agreement that places birds above people will ultimately have bad results. if you want to see the outer banks turn into a beach-side appalachia, then root for the birds. & break out the banjos.
I am not trying to disrespect anyone on this topic, and I apologize to anyone who I have offended. njsurfer42, I appreciate your respect and that's okay if you do not like what I have to say this time. To you posters who have called me a moron, a tree hugger, an anti-God/anti-human/anti-Christ, a d**k dragger, that "I suck", and whatever other slander you throw my way, that type of demeanor is what is wrong here. I am attempting to bring up valid points from a conservational point of view. If you don't like it then try to bring up some opposite reasons on why the reasons that I am suggesting are so blasphemous and apparently don't matter. The issues run deep. You're right, I do not live there (although I really would like to) and my opinions are from an outsiders point-of-view. I respect more opinions from people who actually live there rather than other outsiders points-of-view. But if it wasn't for us outsiders, than Tourism (your economy) would be kaput. I do understand that local economic downfall can be partially blamed on beach closures, but not entirely. There are other factors in play than just beach closures. Think about the people come there to fish/eat/camp/rent houses/surf etc. They are hardcore beach-goers like most of us on this forum. There are a whole lot of other beaches that are closer to their striking distances and budget and time restraints for vacation time, and they are being taken into great consideration. Nags Head, Atlantic Beach, Va Beach, OCMD. They offer many more amenities and stores, restaurants, and whatnot that are so limited in some of those remote stretches on the lower shores of the banks. It is also 2010. Perhaps the local businesses and owners and residents need to start thinking of some new things to grab people's attentions and bring them in. Is there an OBX Tourism Board? If not, there should be. The issue about National Parks being set aside for recreational use, and for all to enjoy is a touchy one. If it wasn't for men like Theodore Roosevelt and John Muir, The National Parks system may not be near as good or decent or as secure as it is today.(or even exist!) Roosevelt and Muir saw the great beauty and the serenity in places such as Yellowstone and Yosemite, as well as The Outer Banks and like shores. If that park was not instilled then it very well could have become another Topsail Island or another Ocean City. I think people should be thankful that it is not, and that it is one of the greatest and most astonishing places that we have left on our shores, and for that, I am thankful. But these parks were placed into the protective hands of the Federal Agencies so that people with too much greed and will and dollar signs in their eyes did not overrun and rape the land for their own privileges. They were installed for all living things to share and co-exist, so that all can enjoy and dwell in it's vast beauties. All I'm trying to do is get some of the opponents to the closures to see the other side of the issue in and open-minded manner. I may be a little rash at times, but nothing is sugarcoated in this world. In these times when all the state and government agencies want to develop and expand and create all kinds of new buildings and roads, people need to learn to conserve their resources and cut back on their wants and consumption, or we will ruin what is barely left for our future generations.
you guys seem to think that s-turns, lighthouse, and frisco pier are the only places to surf on the whole island. I don;t go to hatteras to walk up on to the beach and sit with a bunch of massive families and kids running everywhere, i can do that at home. I go to drive a mile to be nowhere near anyone else. im not about killing animals but whatever happened to natural selection? the fox is a birds natural predator, what are we going to do now? shoot bears when they eat salmon when the salmon are going to lay eggs??
