Shaping

Discussion in 'All Discussions' started by BassMon2, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    So iv been saying this for awhile. Want to take a crack at shaping. Never really had the space but now that I'm in the new house i do. Well i think it's about time. Not right this moment as it's winter. But by spring for sure.

    Iv been doing my research and i think I'm going to use greenlight supply. They sell a kit that comes with everything. Except power tools. Which i already have except the planer. So my first question for the shapers here is this just that. Thoughts on using a planer on the first go. My plan was to not use one and just do it by hand for the first time.

    Second question is for everyone. Thoughts on what to shape? Im thinking a small wave board. Fish, mini sims, or maybe a egg/pod type board. Sort of like the picture below. Im leaning towards a pod. Single, twin, or quad? Just want to open the discussion up to your guys thoughts. Somthing more simple for a first time shape. But that still would have a purpose in my quiver so I'd want to ride it.

    I'll probably order the kit fairly soon and get to shaping. Glassing will have to wait for warmer weather. Ofcourse I'll be posting here throughout the process.

    m53.jpg
     
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  2. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Good luck, man.
    I have always been of the opinion I prefer to spend my time riding them, rather than making them. My work skills were in other "departments". Tried making 2 boards (late sixties), not successful, although the second was remarkably better than the first.
    So, that concluded my shaping days. I went on to chasing women and surfing as much as I could - there I met with success!!
     

  3. MrBigglesworth

    MrBigglesworth Well-Known Member

    Jun 29, 2018
    Seems to me, you’d be more apt to ride what your showing pics of when you make it, and those designs seem to be what works in the breaks you surf and HOW you surf. Also, they don’t look like a ton of rocker or intricate shapes that will be difficult to glass. Fin set up seems to be purely based on how you’ll surf the bort. Are you gonna need grip in the tail or loose... speed or response I guess. Five fin seems to be a good base as you can run it as a quad on down so it’s versatile. From what limited stuff I’ve learned, the bottom is what you need to get right for whatever the borts purpose will be.
    It will be a super cool project either way Man

    If you want, we can put together a work version of your stand and that will help too.
     
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  4. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    I think I can help, BassMon... I taught a board design and construction course at my local community college for years, and I think I can dig up some resources. If I find them, I'll dm you. But to answer your questions...

    Get a planer. No sense in mucking around without it. If you plan to shape even a handful of boards in your life, it will pay for itself. You can go full out and buy a Skil online, but you'll pay for it. It will last a lifetime (or three), and is the prized planer among shapers. Second choice would be the modified Hitachi. Also a good buck, but a good planer for shaping. Third would be the Bosch 3 1/4" planer. I've shaped many, many boards with this tool before I pulled the trigger on a Skil. You need something that you can adjust depth on the fly, so look for ease of adjustment. The Bosch has that, but it's ratcheted... no smooth. But it works well, and you can easily change out blades instead of sharpen them. Shaping with a surform and sanding block from start to finish is a bear, and very difficult to do accurately. A planer is the most accurate tool you'll work with building a surfboard.

    On what to shape... Yes, you could go with a simple shape like a mini egg or a simple groveler type design. Makes sense. Whatever you decide, go low rocker... much easier to foil and takes most of the guesswork out of trying to adjust rocker. Greenlight has a good selection of close tolerance blanks with good natural rockers.

    But there's another theory... one that I prescribe: If you plan to build several boards in your near future, do everything on your first board - swallow tail, glass on fins, resin tint, cutlap, polished gloss... the works. Do that on your first several boards. The reason? By your 5th board, you'll be on your 5th resin tint instead of your first. Get it? Make the learning curve super steep, and keep a notebook. You'll only use it for your first dozen boards or, so... but it will help and it's something to hold onto and look back on some day.
     
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  5. DawnPatrol321

    DawnPatrol321 Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2012
    Solid stuff here. Bassmon, listen to this man.
     
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  6. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    - Buy a $100 entry level power planer like a Bosch or Ryobi. Something that adjusts up to like 1/8" cut. You'll get way more control mowing extra thickness out of the raw blank, than with hand tools like a surform (which you will still need for rail cutting, concaves, etc.), and cutting foam it will last for dozens of boards if you get into it.

    - I agree..small wave board. They are lower tech and more forgiving than a high performance shortboard for example. The volume of a board you shape will be inexact - it will probably end up having more volume than your target because most people starting out leave a lot of extra foam on the board than a more experienced shaper - and that matters a lot less on a small wave shape. I'd go for something you don't already have in your quiver. If you already have a nice fish, but not a mini simmons, do the mini-sim. I'd use shaping to expand your horizons.

    Most of all, take it slowly, methodically, and you'll do fine.
     
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  7. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    Good point about going for the works on the first couple boards LB. I appreciate it. Totally makes sense. And I'll definitely pick up a planer as per your suggestion. Iv always loved board design and if i know myself (which i think i do), i won't be stopping at one board. Any resources you could dig up would be very much appreciated as well.

    Barry- I hear that. I love working with my hands however. We will see how this goes. But i think I'll be hooked. I don't think I'll be shaping high performance type shapes. I'll save that for the pros. But who knows. Time will tell.

    Mr B- i have plenty of good wave boards so figured I'd stick to the "fun" type shapes. Already have a mini sims i love. But could always do a more mellow one for super small gliding days as mine has some performance built in. The more i think about it though i might actually want to do a single fin, ditch the egg idea. 5'8-5'10. Similar to the one i have but more my size. Throw a more intricate tail on it and do a glass on fin as per LBs suggestion of keeping the learning curve steep. Somthing like this....
    JOEFALCONE_DTS_510_grande.jpg
     
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  8. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    I like that board pictured--who made that one?? Nice diamond tail.
     
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  9. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    I just did a quick Google search of single fins and found it. Joe Falcone is the shaper. And i agree. I would totally ride that thing
     
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  10. MrBigglesworth

    MrBigglesworth Well-Known Member

    Jun 29, 2018
    I really like those shapes Bass!
     
  11. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Thanks--I googled his site--he has that model up on his site. Wondering if I should have him make me one, but 7'6", 3 in thick.
     
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  12. CJsurf

    CJsurf Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2014
    I've been making boards since 1989. Started with an inexpensive Ryobi planer. You can get a planer at Harbor Freight for under $60 that will get you started. A few years back I was having a problem with a complaining neighbor and in a pinch I did an entire board using a really sharp low angle block plane for all of the planing. It worked surprisingly well.

    I'd advise you to start by making a copy of a board you already have and like as a first board, stick with PU/PE construction and use UV Cure resin. UV Cure resin has many benefits for the beginner. Its pretty much idiotproof.
     
  13. CJsurf

    CJsurf Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2014
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  14. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    ^^^Ask him if he has a shaping/glassing stand, too.
     
  15. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    So he's my plan.

    Im going eps/epoxy. In not saying its the same but I'm used to working with resin, so not a complete beginner there. Obviously glassing a whole board is diffrent from ding repair. But iv done some sizable repairs.

    I thought about copying a board. But im not going that route either. Im making my own template based off a board i own. My thoughts are I'll be less concerned with the numbers that way. I'll do a 5'8-5'10 x 20 x 2.5. Nose and tail width I'll just see what curves looks right compared to what's in my head, using a owned board as a starting point.

    The planer i was thinking of seeing if home depot rents them. I did find a used one for sale. In my current occupation iv found as i gained experience i learned what i like/dislike about certain brands and types of power tools. For instance i love drills with the magnets to hold screws. Well worth it when your standing on top of a 12 foot ladder outstretched trying to get a screw into duct work or a beam. Point being ill either rent or get the cheap harbor freight one until i get a feel for it and can make a educated decision on a buy.

    Mr B actually built me a stand that would work perfect. Might just throw a old sheet or something over it while working to keep it from getting torn up and full of resin.

    Got the board in my head. Got the process down (i think. Iv been researching for years). The kit comes with all the smaller tools I'll need. Going to be pulling the trigger in the next week or two and get started. Hoping to get this one done then do another over the summer depending on how things go.
     
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  16. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    Using epoxy resin is a good option for your first glass job. Try to find a moderately quick hardener, not too quick, not too slow (IMO 60 work time is just too slow for surfboard construction, 20 minutes work time hardener is too fast for a first times). I think resin research makes a epoxy+hardener that has a 30 minute work time. Thats ideal. I've used it many times...if you work in a warm but not hot shop, it will be very forgiving....after 30 or so minutes you will know from the feel of the resin that its time to start wrapping things up but it will still be workable for another 5 or so minutes. By contrast, when Poly+mekp resin signals its time to wrap things up, that means you should have already wrapped things up a couple minutes ago!

    One other thought if you like epoxy resin. Consider a poly blank, and glassing it with epoxy resin. Its great combination - Poly foam is very forgiving and great to get the feel for shaping more so than EPS IMO.

    I agree with CJ that UV cure poly resin is a great option as well, IF you are shaping a poly blank.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  17. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    I believe the resin and hardener I'll be using is the one you mentioned by resin research. According to the greenlight site its not super quick and is good for first timers.

    I thought about doing a poly blank. Im trying to take LBs advice of keeping the learning curve steep. I do like that theory. But at the same time i don't want to give myself to much of a headache. I'll put some thought into the poly blank.

    Im think I'll be doing a retroish style single fin so poly would fit nicley with that shape.
     
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  18. Notaseal

    Notaseal Well-Known Member

    Apr 18, 2015
    Bubbles under the wet glass are evil and must be destroyed
     
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  19. CJsurf

    CJsurf Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2014
    One of the beauties of glassing with UV Cure poly is the ability to glass a board in almost any weather as long as the sun is out. I've done boards in my shed in the dead of winter when the temperature outside is at freezing. When I'm ready to cure the board I just carry it out of the shed and find a spot where the winter sun is reflecting nicely off of the siding of the house and in minutes its good to go.

    I've also glassed boards with UV on the hottest days of summer when Epoxy or catalyzed Poly would have fired off way too quickly. I work in a back yard shed where temps could be in the 30s or the could be near 100.

    Epoxy is very temperamental about a lot of environmental factors and temperature is one of the biggest. When I do epoxy I want the room to be at or above 70 degrees for at least 8 hours after glassing and at a stable temperature. Also be very aware of dust and any oils from your hands or tools as these will make a mess of an epoxy glass job. I've done a number of boards doing epoxy over poly blanks but I've gone entirely back to traditional PU/PE construction. I never got a bad result out of epoxy but I prefer working with PE by a mile for a number of reasons. I've also got mild sensitivity issues with epoxy.

    Swaylocks is littered with countless threads of beginners who've run into the pitfalls of working with epoxy.
     
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  20. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    I appreciate your feedback. Don't want to have this come off as me not taking in your advice. I definitely am. I was originally planning on glassing in the backyard but decided i would actually prefer a more controlled environment inside. Hence why i had planned to go epoxy. Might change my mind on that. But if i do go with epoxy and fail, well then lesson learned. I am the type of guy who learns better the hard way.

    Iv been talking with you guys, locals, shapers, and searching swaylocks. Plus this isn't a random decision. It's somthing iv been looking into and interested in for years. Iv run across and absorbed ALOT of info. Lots of conflicting advice. Im trying to get to the reasons why certain advice is given and weigh it out given my own personal opinion and circumstances.

    While on the topic, how do you guys go about doing concaves? Before you go on and say i shouldn't try it on the first time....i know. But i might just go for it. Learning experience.

    So do you guys shape your rails first then concaves last? Or outline, foil, concave, rails? Iv gotten lots of conflicting advice on this. Just wondering how you guys go about it. I might not do a concave, probably will, but will see how my confidence is once i get going. I understand and comprehend the whole shaping process except that. I get the act of doing, but an foggy on how to plan it out.