Swell height vs. wave height

Discussion in 'Weather and Surf Forecasting' started by clintopher, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. clintopher

    clintopher Well-Known Member

    Jul 12, 2011
    What's the difference between the two on the buoy data? Since I've been looking at the buoys, which isn't very long, I've noticed that the wave data is always larger with a shorter period. So my guess is the wave data is local wind driven conditions and the swell data is the ground swell from wherever. Is that right?

    How does it translate to beach conditions? Obviously each beach is different but are there any rules of thumb?
    stellarnguyen likes this.
  2. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    The amount of swell showing on the buoy (swell height and period) is more useful than the total wave data, (mean wave height and period) which includes all wave data in the mix, including (when its windy) the locally wind generated chop heading sideshore and offshore that generally show on the beach.

    If your buoy is 30 miles offshore and its reading
    mean wave height and period = 6 feet at 6 seconds
    swell height and period = 2 feet at 8 seconds

    I'd be expecting that 2' @ 8 seconds to be more like what you'll see for surf.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012

  3. Swellinfo

    Swellinfo Administrator

    May 19, 2006
    The significant wave is roughly the wave height of the top 30 percent of all waves.
    The swell height on the buoy maps refers to the primary swell at the buoy location.

    With statistical approaches we can segregate wave magnitude, frequency, and direction at the buoy location into individual swell groups.

    Both significant wave height and primary swell height are telling in the breaking wave. As are secondary and tertiary swells. This intricate nature of the wave spectrum is one of the trickiest part of forecasting. You have to think of waves in terms of an entire 360 degree spectrum.

    Primary swell is usually the most telling, but additional swells can combine to become additive to the total breaking wave height.

    Some examples:
    Significant wave height: 5ft
    Primary swell: 3ft @ 12 seconds, ESE
    Secondary swell: 5ft @ 6 seconds, NW

    If this is an east facing break, the secondary swell is actually moving away from the coast, do the primary swell will be most telling.

    Significant wave height: 5ft
    Primary swell: 3ft @ 12 seconds, ESE
    Secondary swell: 4ft @ 9 seconds, SSE

    In this example the primary and secondary swells are additive to create a bigger overall significant wave height.
    stellarnguyen and woof like this.
  4. shark-hunter

    shark-hunter Well-Known Member

    Apr 29, 2012
    That's not totally accurate in all cases. We are on the east coast. Unless you're talking about strong nor'easters, hurricanes most of the swell generated is very localized so significant wave height is more important than the swell measurement on the buoy.

    For example, right now here the swell height is "(.)7 feet" at 11 seconds and the significant wave height is 6 feet at 8 seconds out of the sw. It's waist to chest right now. Not less than 1 foot. Just pay attention to the direction of the swell. Significant wave height is more important than swell height here on the east coast ESPECIALLY in summer with fronts creating most of the wave action.

    I must add, If there's a signifcant medium period/ ground swell in the water than swell date on the buoy is your go to measurement!
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  5. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    I was just talking about sideshore/outgoing locally generated wind wave height not really mattering

    I agree that if the local wind waves coming onshore, then they add to the surf height.
  6. shark-hunter

    shark-hunter Well-Known Member

    Apr 29, 2012
    Oh ok. Yeah a great example would be A south swell 3 feet at 7 seconds and a nw swell 3 feet at 7 seconds. The buoy would show significant wave height 6 feet at 7 seconds. Of course we all know that's completely misleading for surfers, but very useful for mariners.
  7. jsimmoj

    jsimmoj New Member

    Oct 13, 2016
    is 6ft waves at 8 seconds good conditions?
  8. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Mason Leeser
  9. seldom seen

    seldom seen Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Herro tread, PREASE.

  10. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Haha, next level sh!t right there. Can't believe it was sitting in front of me this entire time lol

  11. nynj

    nynj Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2012
  12. seldom seen

    seldom seen Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    Ahhh Kidde as much as I wish I could claim that, I must give due credit to Valhallalla, as teh phrase was birthed in his witty brain. What a great think tank, you guys are the best.
  13. Zeroevol

    Zeroevol Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2009
    You jerks get me every time with these threades pulled up from 6 years ago! lol
    Yankkee likes this.
  14. antoine

    antoine Well-Known Member

    Mar 10, 2013
    Lefty likes this.
  15. sixfootride

    sixfootride Member

    Aug 3, 2016
    Try dropping in. Wahoo Style. Straight to the beach. Cutting it way late. Stall while digging deep. Plain covered slow. Height adjusts dramatically.
  16. woof

    woof New Member

    Sep 12, 2017
  17. headhigh

    headhigh Well-Known Member

    Jul 17, 2009
    Legendary first post.

    You are hired.
    Lefty, antoine and La_Piedra like this.
  18. stellarnguyen

    stellarnguyen New Member

    Nov 14, 2021
  19. sigmund

    sigmund Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2015
    swell height = yeah!
    wave height = meh