Thanks Barack for your great healthcare reform

says the 60-something year old that writes in a Wall of Text and babbles incoherently about space invaders, far left gobbledegook and "brain dead Kentucky hillbillies". Seriously? Don't answer that...nobody takes you seriously.

 

Yep, exactly what I experienced in Germany and Italy. Everyone had medical care, and most decent companies paid for premium insurance.

 

Says a guy who thinks getting some fresh air is farting in bed and pulling the covers over his head. Must hit a nerve with the brain dead kentucky hillbilly remark. I understand your ire. You hate people talking about your Father/brother and your Mother/uncle.

 

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

 

Damn straight! Chichablowme is the biggest joke on here.

 

It started as a seemingly good idea, bring some sanity to spiraling health care costs and try to make it affordable for everyone.

Then the pols got a hold of it. And the lobby money started flowing. A bipartisan group of pols got together and said "we won't pass this unless you let the insurance companies write the bill!"

The rest of the pols got together and said, "crap, we can't pass w\o their votes, and we'll look bad and won't get re-elected!"

So they said, "Ok, let the insurance companies write it."

There was much rejoicing in the health care industry. Profits would continue to spiral out of control, and instead of market forces controlling the price (somewhat), now their profits are backed by the gov. Money for life and beyond.

There was much rejoicing in Congress. The group that said "NO" claimed victory as they didn't let the big bad guvmint tell people what to do.

The other group claimed victory as they had "done what they promised, and brought affordable health care to the masses."

And once again, we are all left with a giant steaming turd. And WE have to pay for it.

It could work. Just like the TSA could actually create a system to protect flights. But as usual, once the pols and bureaucrats get a-hold of it, it all goes to hell.

ACA is the health care version of the TSA. F'ing dog and pony show.

 

Interesting idea....but do you really want to be negotiating fees when you're lying in bed with a new cancer diagnosis, or after a bad car accident?

This gets back to the arguments being made for the semi-socialized healthcare systems in Europe - everyone is covered at some level (ie. for acute care issues), and those with means can opt up for better service if they choose.

It seems that one question underlying the debate is whether you believe healthcare is a right or a privilege. What do people think?

 

Definitely a privilege. The concept that "good health" is a "right", a legal concept, is inconsistent with biological thought. Makes zero sense. Unless, of course, you are a lawyer or a parasite.
BTW, tubey, competition for price happens not "patient to doc" so much, but in the competition for patients between ddocs/practises. You misunderstood what I miswrote!!!

 

How is the EU model something to strive for? Everyone gets a base level of garbage care but the better off can purchase premium insurance and receive better care. How is that "fair"? The truth is, and no one wants to admit, is the fact that nothing is fair. Nature is not fair, life is not fair, even within a single family things are not "fair". Anyone believing they can hand more power to the government to have them force fairness is deluding themselves. Stop using that word its the arguement of a child. Now we have millions of Adult children throwing tantrums in unison and bringing a great country to its knees. Not because the tantrums are so powerful but because we and the leaders we elect are to weak to tell them to stfu.

 

Lol, dude your weak attempts will never hit any of my nerves. Seriously...your best shot is to come at me with the usual tired "inbred", "toothless", "hillbilly" white hate crap. It would be so easy to fire back at you and denigrate you as an Hispanic, but I won't lower myself to your racist level.

Remember, NOBODY HERE TAKES YOU SERIOUSLY.

Check the scorecard there, Chi Chi. Basically 1 other Swellie believes that O'care is a good thing.

Swellies: 114
Chi Chi: ZERO (much like your IQ)

 

All I know is I bought UnitedHealth stock when the ACA passed.

As expected, they've been jacking up my premiums every year since.

At least the 50% (-ish) profit covers that increase and then some.

This was probably not the intent of the law, but I'm sure it was the intent of the lobbyists.

 

Gotcha. Yes, I agree, that sort of competition is appropriate and, in theory, creates a system in which good service is rewarded by patient loyalty and thus more business. The difficulty comes when you try to define "good service". Is it shorter wait times? More face time with the doc? More testing? Less testing?

In theory, good service is when the patient gets better, but even that can be hard to define depending on the condition being treated (ie. replacing an arthritic knee is more binary then helping someone get their diabetes under control, or living comfortably with COPD...).

OK I'm being way too serious and lame now. Anyone surfing today? I'm stuck inside with work...

 

It's fair, because everyone gets care of some sort. It also isn't garbage care. Why do so many of you base the right to live on a monetary system? (Not directed at you, Zippy) Why does a fat, lazy, millionaire deserve care over a strong blue collar worker? Sure, in the republican fantasy world you picture all those in need of subsidized health care to be worthless leaches, but in real life that is just not true. And I can speak to this, because I have been broke before, working any low paying job just to keep a roof over my head. I injured myself while only working a minimum wage job, and had no insurance. It took me twice as long to heal on my own, and greatly delayed my transition into a better job. Think about the taxes lost while I was recovering. Taxes lost while I couldn't even work my minimum wage job. I guarantee that for every worthless leach, there is a person that is in the same situation I was in.
In Europe, everyone gets the same opportunity for health care, no matter what. If you are rich, and you want to pay for service above that, you can do it. In the end, even the poor still get access to doctors and medicine. And guess what? They don't have to worry about people using the emergency room for every little problem, then not paying the bill because they are broke. It is easy to be critical of the EU healthcare system based on higher taxes, which are only about 10-15% higher for someone at my level of engineering. But you must keep in mind the many many social programs Europe has over the USA. Cut all those out, and you will see the tax difference reduced. I encourage everyone to spend some time in Europe and get a real feel for how things are. People are happier. Don't get me wrong, I love the USA and the place I live, but Americans could benefit from a little integration into the systems that the rest of the civilized world thrives on.

 

Cool to see a surfing doc. I will be hitting the waist high waves after work with my log.

 

Brew...I have spent 0 time Europe. What are the other programs available that we don't have? 15% is a pretty solid amount of income tax on top of what we already pay. If we did not have so much gov't waste on various programs, maybe we could afford one that works.

The bottom line is we pay a sh*tload of taxes here and watch our gov't piss it away (try adding up property tax real estate tax income tax sales tax and add 15% more on top and apply to your gross income)...sorry man but Europe's healthcare may be working for them but our economy, gov't structure and our politicos make it nearly impossible to fathom going in that direction (unless 50 trillion in unfunded liabilities is not enough). They would need to add 15% on top the whole working class and the dems or repubs ain't going there.

 

10-15% is not bad at my pay level (upper middle class). The social programs in EU are vast and expensive. Their welfare system is much more generous than the US, they offer free public universities for all, and they have a real system for paid maternal/paternal leave. That is just a small part of all the programs available.
The US is very wasteful with tax money, but the biggest waste of all is defense. This is just shameful, and should be a much hotter topic than the many failures of the ACA:

 

You pay for indigent patients one way or another. 20 years ago I sat beside indigent patients recieving the same chemo/treatment for free that I was paying for. Some one paid for their treatment. Guess who.

 

Good stuff Brew. If you watched the regressives debate last night, they all want to INREASE defense spending (except maybe Rand Paul). But, yeah, let's demonize some perceived leaches instead cuz that's where all the money is wasted. It's much easier to do that.

 

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