The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

agreed.
We really need some one to shake things up and I don't see a single republican candidate at this time I like. Sure as hell can't vote for Hillary. Bernie Sanders is a little left of where I usually am but I wonder if he might be a means to get some power back in the hands of the people.

 

Also agree

 

see above in bold

 

Agreed.

 

+1

 

Riley we were not attacked by a nation.
Most of the terrorist were from Saudi Arabia anyway.

Why we didn't let the rag heads continue to kill each other off is confusing to me. Oh wait. Big oils interest.

There are and have been numerous bad dictators in the world we are only in the middle east for one reason only.

If you are okay with that then fine. But don't kid yourself that it is about anything else.

As a small business owner I can tell you first hand the economy is still struggling and will continue for a long while. Not that this is all due to Obama as he did inherit a mess but things aren't all peachy out here in the real world.

 

School just called. Got to go get a sick one. Peace

 

I don't get the whole hatred of the rich thing except as jealousy...

You guys all love the small little guy but if you look at some of the richest people in this country, most started out middle class or lower and busted their a$$es to build success. Guys Like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, or the Waltons didn't start out rich. Hell even the hated mcDonalds started as a small business.

 

“Government spending on business only aggravates the problem. Too many business have successfully lobbied for special favors and treatment by seeking mandates for their products, subsidies (in the form of cash payments from the government), and regulations and tariffs to keep more efficient competitors at bay. Crony capitalism is much easier than competing in an open market. But it erodes our overall standard of living and stifles entrepreneurs by rewarding the politically favored rather than those who provide what consumers want.”

is THIS what you hate??

 

I don't hate the rich, nor am I in favor of wealth redistribution.

Continually concentrating wealth and power into smaller and smaller hands is a recipe for disaster though. Repeated ad nauseum throughout history. It's not sustainable, and when it crashes...it's bloody.

 

EXACTOMUNDO!!!

100% on target, pump.

 

Oh wow, Pump, Barry agrees with you.....

Is there jealously of the rich? Sure. But these jealous types don't realize that the rich aren't happy either.

The problem is the power the rich hold over me and the government. Our current corporate America isn't your grandpa's corporate America.

I hate the rich because their companies pay sh!tty wages to the average man and they can never get enough. Never can get enough. Really, what does one do with 10 billion dollars? I'd give 9.5 billion away. But that's just me. The rest I'd spend on drugs.

But the rich are addicted to money as I am to crack. Everybody has their obsessions.....

 

Yup, I agree on that; I too would give away most of it. After all, after you have a couple of million in the bank, how much better can you eat, without doing yourself harm??
As for company pay, $25 an hour is needed for base pay for persons to do "ok". I agree that companies need to re-assess their pay structure. It does motivate employees to do a better job, and makes for a happier work environment. I enjoyed my work when I perceived I was paid well. However, government should keep their noses out of it--it is none of their business, imho.

 

People hate on the Walton family, owners of Walmart, because they enriched themselves to absurd heights by taking advantage of people. They pay wages so low that their employees need welfare to survive. Thus the government is subsidizing the Walton family at the expense of the commoner; THAT IS WHY PEOPLE HATE THEM. Wake upand stop toeing the party line.

You claim that most of the wealthiest people in this country started out 'middle class or lower'? Then back it up.

If you can manage to quantify this absurd claim, and provide me with trustworthy and respectable supporting data (that I cannot refute with superior data), then I offer once again to buy you a case of beer. (Obviously you have to use internationally accepted measures of class and real income, not some 'Donald Trump identified as middle class' bullsh*t).

But ... you won't even try to take my bet, because you know deep down that this statement is total bullsh*t, and that you can't back it up at all, except for some biased and opinion based poll-piece from a right wing think tank like the Heritage foundation.

As far as all the other arguments go ... you either believe in the role of Government to protect citizens from one another, or you don't. If you do, then you can't just say 'protect us from the violent criminals but not the financial ones.' That is absurd. Equality is equality.

If you don't believe in government that's fine, I find MIS's anarchist ideas absurd and impossible, but at least he's not sucking his own d*ck like all of status-quo supporting party-flag wavers.

 

Slash, first off. I fully would suck my own c0ck if I could.

Also, Slash, an anarchy is impossible with that attitude.

gvt is supposed to be an entity FOR US and BY US. When it ceases to function as an expression of the will of the people it is tyranny, straight up. Also, the 'will of the people' is dangerous as well...what if all the short ones vote to eat the tall ones? mmmm long pork.


I would love to see people agree to help one another out. voluntarily. I do in my hood and with my family.
forcing folks to 'help' via redistribution of wealth aka taxes is silly/immoral/counterproductive.
paying taxes on things I use (gas tax for roads or whatever) seems ok-ish as I could choose to walk instead of consume gas. Obama care is a tax on existing

how is one wrong (stealing) going to fix another (social ills a-z)?

If you want to make the world a better place DO IT YOURSELF. thinking that a warmongering entity that thrives on power and control will make the world a better place is 'absurd and impossible'


there are countless examples in history about communities throughout the world and throughout time that relied on voluntary agreements to make their society function. There were still rules and punishments, but no central entity that had a monopoly on using force. Read Mutual Aid by Kropotkin if you would like to see what I am talking about. at least cruise the wiki page.

I am not saying I can create Utopia, I am saying the use of force to mold society is a losing move and NEVER lasts. we are in un-chartered territory historically. what is oldest functioning democracy? how long did it last? balkanization of US or formation/announcement of dictatorship is around the corner. My degree in Asian studies told me that, lololololo

Id like to thank everyone that swore an oath to the Constitution and ACTUALLY FOLLOWS said Oath as opposed to being a poster child for the Nuremberg trials.

to finish this tirade and stay thread related, Killing people abroad does no good. at all. ever.

isnt it crazy the commander in chief has a noble peace prize and his drone policy has killed dozens of children? do words even mean the same thing anymore? or is this Orwellian doublespeak?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

 

If you want to assume that taxation is stealing, and find it morally corrupt, that's fine. But at some point we need a system of road maintenance, education, and utility delivery so that our society may continue to 'progress.'

Without the need for all that crap, and in small communities, in resource rich habitats, we could certainly accomplish your utopia. I am aware of that. But once again, eventually, there will come a leader who chooses political gain over egalitarianism, and he will convince subordinate and more desperate men to join his cause, which will be the taking of your resources. Will your community defend yourself?

Therein lies the need for government, a social agreement that the community will keep itself safe from threats both 'foreign and domestic.' I agree with many of the communal principles of anarchist thought, but whenever I consider it as a model for greater society, I run into this conundrum. I have not found a way around it. I don't believe there is a way (outside of biological alteration/control).

To ensure the longevity of the community's ideals, we must agree to a communal defense; a police force, rough militia, organized army, or all of the above. That force is needed. Historically, it has always been controlled by the elites of society, and used to preserve their institutionalized advantages over the commoners.

A de-monopolization of the force is an attractive idea; indeed this was key to the early successes of democracy in the U.S. (state militias preventing overt federalism etc.). But weaponry was simple then, in the days of the well-minded and short-sighted 2nd amendment.

Outside of a return to 1800's era technology, we can never again have a de-monopolization of force, thanks to the complications of fighter jets and tanks posessed by monopolized forces the world over.

So .... what then do you prescribe for greater society? (Aside from mandatory Asian Studies courses, haha). Taxes and advanced armies aren't going anywhere.

PS. Stop pretending that some sort of camps or martial law are coming. It ain't happening. If it does I'll personally huff a chemtrail.

EDIT: PPS, The Constitution has been half-followed since the beginning. A document claiming 'equality of men under god' started with, and ensured, slavery and misogyny for a Century. Legacies still opressing citizens today. Yeah. Real perfect document we got right there...

 

I just want a better world free of coercion and full of privacy. My porn habits are disturbing and shouldn't be known

 

ever look into the philanthropy numbers of guys like Gates and the Koch brothers??

 

Bill Gates--

Sam Walton--

Steve Jobs--

Larry Ellison--

to name just a few.....

 

Jeff Bezos--

Mark Zuckerberg--

David Koch--

Count Charles Koch there too....