The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

Warren Buffet's father was a congressman so it could be argued he started 'rich' but the guy had a very strict work ethic and loved investing. He basically built his fortune on his own.

 

So, looking at giving,

Bill Gates gave 2.65 billion in 2013 (best figures i could find) and 30.2 billion lifetime
Warren Buffet gave 2.63 billion and 19.9 billion lifetime
Zuckerberg gave 991 million and 1.5 billion lifetime
Those evil Waltons gave 325 million and 4.9 billion lifetime

 

So far, slash, pump is the only one backing up his statements. And you make claims that you seem to not back up, while whining for others to do so. Your posts are full of left wing commie invective-nothing more. Which is the reason I don't engage in the discussion--it is 100% bias, and you are pure evidence of that. And so am I, BTW. At least I acknowledge it.
Now go surfing, dummy.

 

O

 

The bluberries look like TaTa's...

 

o TaTas???

 

+1^^ The return to feudalism or revolt?

Good tread.

There may be diamonds in that house on the hill but the people who live there still complain.

 

Not here. the beauty here is that anyone can make it rich with hard work.

 

Truthfully almost all here are rich compared to the rest of the world.

I'm not saying it's terrible here by any means but I have a healthy distrust of men and power.
Seems like a lot of the checks and balances have disappeared in recent history.

 

and women too...

Very true

 

Exactly. However, under liberalism, hard work is left for others to do, but the seizing of the riches the work produces for "redistribution" is a given. The Greatest Generation is evolving into the weakest generation, by choice.

 

I'll never begrudge a man for making money via hard work, nor will I ask him for a dime. I prefer to stand on my own two feet. But there's a difference between making money via ethical hard work and doing it by illicit means. In the business world it's a lot easier to make money if you toss ethics out the window.

Fred Koch made his initial money building refineries for Stalin. This is a fact. He hates commies, unless they have $$$. F that guy.

His sons are scumbags like him. Here's a few highlights, go look for yourself if you want, there's plenty more out there...this is just the tip of the iceberg...

In 2000, the Clinton administration leveled a 97-count indictment against Koch Industries for covering up the discharge of 91 tons of benzene, a carcinogen, from its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas. The company was liable for $350 million in fines; 4 Koch employees faced up to 35 years in prison. “The Koch Petroleum Group eventually pleaded guilty to one criminal charge of covering up environmental violations, including the falsification of documents, and paid a twenty-million-dollar fine” (Jane Mayer, “Covert Operations”, The New Yorker, August 30, 2010).

The federal government sued Koch in 1995 over a reported 300 oil spills at pipelines owned by the company, which dumped an estimated 3 million gallons of oil into lakes and streams in 6 states. In 2000, Koch settled the case and agreed to pay $30 million in civil penalties.

“In 1999, a jury found Koch Industries guilty of negligence and malice in the deaths of two Texas teen-agers in an explosion that resulted from a leaky underground butane pipeline” (Mayer). See the National Transportation Safety Board’s report on the accident.

A jury found Koch Industries guilty in 1999 of stealing millions of gallons of oil from public and Indian lands through fraudulent mismeasuring. This concluded a 20-year long legal battle between Charles and David Koch and their estranged brother, Bill Koch, who revealed the scheme and spearheaded the lawsuit. See the 60 Minutes story about the case.

The University of Massachusetts at Amherst’s Political Economy Research Institute released a study this year that named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States.

 

Crucify those ****s.

And I'm non-partisan barry and pumpy

 

I typed k u n t s and it got cock blocked

 

University Of Masschussetts?? .....at Amherst??? 60 minutes???

That is Center of the Universe of liberal thinking!!! They thought Ted Kennedy was a conservative.

hahahaha!!

Having said that, you can level similar charges agains the American Red Cross as well.

The Koch brothers, for better or worse, provide 60,000 persons with employment. Hopefully, the past has been improved on. Time will tell.

 

in the interests of fairness:

 

the bigger the business entity gets (via hard work or otherwise) they lobby (bribe) the power elite to create rules ( or dominate economies of scale) that further enrich them and create regulations that bar entry to the little guy via fees, licenses, etc that only 'big boys' can afford.

since a free market has never been realized for time immemorial, (there is always some interference from elite to maintain control via regulations, enforcement, etc) it would be ncie to see what a truly free market would do

I for one would vote with my wallet and pay more or products from companies I found to be ethical and conscious of their workers' and the environment's needs for health

 

but my young padawan, it it business getting involed with government or government sticking its nose into business that created the influence issue in the first place????

 

Pathetic attempt Pump. Guess you don't really want that case of beer, do you?

Please ... read through my post when you have a few minutes. I took yours seriously, and took the time to write a serious response, so that is the least you can do.

Your initial claim was that "most of the wealthiest people in this country started out 'middle class or lower'. Those were your exact words. 'Middle class or lower.'

1)I asked you to quantify your statement and to back it up. What this would mean is: to use internationally/professionally accepted non-biased indices of wealth to determine what is 'middle class or lower.'

2)You did not do that. Instead, you copied and pasted biographies from Wikipedia. Every single one of your posts was an exact copy from Wikipedia. (Which can be edited by anyone). If you gave me numbers from, lets say, even a biased economist, I'd give you some credit, but you're just too lazy to disturb your own worldview.

3)Lets move on.

Lets take the Forbes 400 'definitive list of Wealth in America' as the main list for your argument, (I'm guessing that's what you're reading, since they consistently maintain the narrative of the 'self made man')

Here is an article by the Columbia Journalism Review about the inaccuracies of the 'self-made man' narrative that the Forbes 400 suggests. It uses a study/brief that you can find (Full PDF here).

The data they used fits very well with the parameters of your argument. They define 'middle or lower class' as the majority of us- the economic background that 95% of Americans come from.

Of the Forbes 400 Richest Americans (2011):

-21% of the Forbes 400 list inherited enough money to make the list without ever working.
-19% inherited in between 1 and 50 million dollars (or comparable businesses/capital)
-22% were born into an upper class family (or received a modest inheritance/startup capital)
- leaving ..... 35% that came from middle or lower income backgrounds (the background shared by 95% of Americans).

Now, looking at this, you can see that your original statement is clearly wrong. You claimed that "most of the richest people in this country started out middle class or lower," when, in fact, at most, only 1/3 of the wealthiest people came from average backgrounds. It's obvious that we can conclude, the majority of the wealthiest Americans did in fact come from privileged backgrounds.

Actually looking into these things takes time. I know it's silly that I did this on a surfing forum, but I think it's important for people to think beyond the mainstream media, and I'm trying to help you do that. We should all take time to look beyond our opinions! There's a lot of smart and powerful people out there, who control the television and radio, and they are lying to you for their own gain. Don't be a tool.

 

No it's not. Liberalism isn't some institution where people just hang out and have money floated to them.

Well maybe after The Great Recession we'll foster a new brand of toughness in America. Man old people are so tuff. Actually these kids today have more problems than ever. Danger lurks everywhere for them.

Detroit and Philly are more dangerous, statistically, than Mosul or Bagdad. Hell we kill more of our own each year than we lose in our wars.

Anyways, many of y'all don't understand that some people are incompetent and non-functioning. Yeah not everyone is born into decent conditions. It is easy to judge when you were born to a mommy and daddy in a comfortable area that nutured and cared for you.

Try growing up with absentee parents in East St. Louis. See where you'd end-up.......

And that is such BS that anyone can get rich with hard work. BS. BS. BS. BS. Most Americans work hard and they aren't rich. That whole, " You can achieve anything if you put your mind to it" is nonsense. Utter nonsense.