Trump / FBI / Russians

The poor just wouldn't be able to live beyond their means anymore. They can buy what they need tax free, but no more dubs or fishing boats on credit while the american taxpayer supports you.

 

Call me crazy, I just hate the ambiguity of the current tax system in this country.

There are a lot of different ideas on taxation out there....just because it's the way we have always done it, doesn't mean it's the only way.

 

settle down

 

Any Industry that you overtax will be hurt by it. People will simply not consume that product to avoid the ridiculous tax. The point is to get people consuming products. If you tax those products, they won't be consumed. Your plan is contradictory to a healthy economy. A lot of the products you would tax are not necessities, people will just go without, or they will pick one up used from someone else to avoid being smacked over the head with a stupid tax. With payroll tax, it comes out before you have a chance to make those decisions.

 

First, I want to make my decisions for myself, I never want decisions with MY money made without my input. Why don't you hold the same values about your money as you do your guns?

Second, you're forgetting people wouldn't pay income taxes and the amount of free capital that would allot people. Also, you would be getting rid of the capital gains tax, taxes on dividends, and interest. That would be free up A LOT of capital. These saving by companies would off set the taxes on the back end. Also, you're assuming people will save all the extra cash they get and I am pretty certain 99% of people would spend every dime.

Third, the way the tax structure is currently set up there is a finite number of tax dollars that can be collected. With a consumption tax, there is infinite possibility of tax revenue, imagine the surplus that would have been created with a consumption tax during the 90's economic boom.

 

Holy crap I want that tie for my work!!!

 

Of course you want to make that decision for yourself, you want to keep your money, and for that reason it would not work. You might say you wouldn't do that, and you may be the one person who doesn't avoid the high tax items, and would spend spend spend, but the majority of people would take the extra cash and spend or invest it where they don't get screwed.

If people avoid those high tax items, those companies eventually go under. To complicate the issue even further, if people avoid those high tax items, there won't be enough tax dollars to fund everything that needs to be funded. The things we take for granted suddenly are in jeopardy and society is in the shitter.

So certain parts of the economy may be OK but you kill off other parts of the economy, no bueno. And it could happen to even the strongest of companies.

With regard to your last point. With payroll tax it is not a finite amount of tax dollars. With a healthy economy, wages go up, when wages go up, more tax dollars get collected each paycheck and when paychecks are bigger because of that raise, they go out and spend more too and there goes more tax money.

With higher wages, more spending happens in the market place. Conversely, if you tax the marketplace heavily, companies will feel the impact, wages will go down and there will be less money to spend in the market place, a vicious cycle that would kill the #1 economy in the world.

 

People will have more money in their pocket. To think they would not spend that money and hoard it goes against everything you see in this country today. Americans spend beyond their means and will continue to do so. Last I check most people can't afford half the crap they own, but they keep on buying.

Wages never rise in line with a companies revenue, it always lags behind. This way taxes would be right in line with revenue always. So by your logic, more revenue would equal higher wages, in turn more revenue would equal his taxable income.

If higher wages means more spending, are you a proponent of raising minimum wage?

Anyways, thanks for the back and forth DP, these are the kind of conversations I enjoy on a steamy Friday afternoon with ZERO swell whatsoever.

 

Do you even surf?

 

It won't work Kyle, you can't make the tax system voluntary. By making it consumption or consumer based you essentially make it voluntary to pay taxes. You will destroy the infrastructure of this country and bankrupt the companies who get hit the hardest by your tax plan. It's a disaster waiting to happen. No offense.

No, i'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage. Companies should have the right to decide what they want to pay their employees. Employees have the right to decide if the wage being offered is satisfactory for services rendered. If you don't like the wage being offered, you go to another company. This creates competition in the workplace and naturally wages increase to gain higher quality employees from their competitors.

 

Saying it is voluntary is a complete misrepresentation. Are you all of a sudden going to make everything you need to live and make money? No, you will purchase it like everyone has and always will. This will not change. At least now you don't have to foot the bill for things you DON'T consume.

It is not a perfect system but what is? Letting congressmen arbitrarily decide how much each of us gets taxed is no system I'll endorse.

 

I don't think it's a misrepresentation at all. Consuming is a voluntary thing. Let's say for example I want a new TV. Currently, I have a flatscreen in every room of my house. If one of them ends up taking a crap. My options are to either go buy a new one, find a used one from a private owner or pawn shop, or simply go without that TV and use the others I already have.

If I know that I'm going to be taxed heavily for buying a new TV, I might be a bit more frugal and decide to get a used one or to not get one at all, or postpone my purchase for a later date; whereas if things are the way they are now, I would probably go out and buy a new one today.

Just one minor example, but if you take that example and apply it to all the items you plan on heavily taxing, you can see quickly how this will cause problems real fast for these companies and for the economy as a whole.

 

Kids already hit the nail...it would punish lower class. For middle and upper middle class it would have no real change. dP you would still buy TV...

The real issue is govt spending. I prefer a lower income tax rate and sensible spending.

Kyle do you think consumption tax would stimulate economic growth? also, why do you prefer consumption tax?

 

Interesting discussion regarding consumption tax.

It seems the consumption tax has the following issues
1. Difficulty in estimating revenues
2. A lack of government control of the taxation process (i.e., they can't just pull it out of a paycheck).
3. Inability to leverage the used, grey, black markets (in fact it could stimulate the black markets).
4. Potential to stifle markets by hindering consumption
5. If it was successful and raised "too much money", do we really want the politicians in DC to have extra money under their control. It is not as if they have been prudent with what they already have.
6. Did I miss anything?

I'd be more interested in a simplified/flat tax, but that would probably put a lot of lawyers, accountants, auditors, and other consultants out of work. A good portion of our economy (service positions) exist because our tax code is so maligned, creating a need for "subject matter experts" in tax code.

By the way, in an earlier post, someone mentioned an issue of a particular economic approach because of the problem with the nature of man being greed. Keep in mind, humans have other "problems with their nature", in addition to greed, such as slothfulness, laziness, complacency, etc. So where as excessive greed may be cause some problems with an economic approach, other aspects of the "flaws" (sinfulness) of man will cause problems with other economic systems. I think Capitalism in the context of our freedom and Democratic Republic form of government has led to a better overall prosperity for the people of this country. It is true that there may be an increasing gap at times between Rich and Poor, but at least the poor in our country seem to benefit in that they are not impoverished as is seen in the "poor" found in other parts of the world. In other words, the rich may get richer, but so are the poor (i.e., the rich are not necessarily getting rich at the poor's expense, but rather they are creating a good or service that is needed and being rewarded for it, which ultimately benefits others).

(Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert in economics, and find politics a fly in the ointment)

Anyways, carry on..

 

Not necessarily, I'm not made of money and if the cost of a new TV gets jacked up because of a stupid tax I'll use one of my other TV's or I will look for a used one for cheaper. I'm not going to overpay for a new one because of some stupid tax.

Cigarettes is a good example, aside from the health reasons, I quit smoking cigs years ago also because the taxes on them got so high that the price per pack got to be ridiculous and I counted all the money I could save or spend on other things if I just quit. It was a big part of my motivation and sure enough my financial situation improved when I quit the cigs. Something I was voluntarily paying high taxes on until I decided I didn't want to participate anymore. That could happen to a lot of things and will hurt those industries.

 

Not as much as I would like - STILL more than you, longer than you and I guarantee BETTER than you!
headhigh vs. OverYourHead

 

Assuming you are in middle class or above, it (tax structure) would have little influence on your decision. If consumption tax was 15%_20%, it would be no different than you making the decision utilizing your current net income situation.

I’m not a total fan of consumption tax. Just lower my taxes and let the free market roll...

 

This I agree with, the rest not so much lol

 

Valid points, good work.

 

Why? Same dollars for you...why would your psychology change?