Trump / FBI / Russians

I hope someday you will realize how much of a jackass you are for tirelessly defending your fucking embarrassment of a hero. I know it hurts your feelings when I talk bad about him so I'll stop.

 

It's all Good HH!!

 

You are assuming it would be the same dollars. Reality is, we have no way of knowing how high the tax would be because we don’t know how much it would take to cover all of the things our taxes pay for now while still having a functioning society. If the economy gets tight, people will hold their money and won’t be contributing to taxes. I can see the taxes being higher in the end because not everybody will be participating at the same level. You can’t force people to buy stuff. And the folks who are poor or barely making it won’t be able to anyways. There’s a lot of flaws to this plan.

 

My thoughts on your questions:

1. Estimating revenue for who? The IRS? That is a good thing, this would make them have to spend more wisely.
2. Less government control of anything is a good thing right? Instead of out of paychecks they would collect it like a sales tax just like states do.
3. Again I have already admitted the black markets would be an issue; however, as far as used items. If I know Americans, they love to be the first guy on the block with the brand new shiny thing, whatever it costs them.
4. This is completely debatable. There is an argument to be made it could boost markets and create more liquidity in markets.
5. Since when is a surplus a bad thing?
6. The fact that you would be in control of all the money you work your ass off for, which is awesome.

The Flat Tax is another direction that I would mind seeing us go in. But what you said about there being jobs created by the Tax Code being so complicated. That is the problem!!! This is the classic government creating unnecessary jobs, not to mention the endless amounts of IRS agents we pay to enforce the code. It's is a form a socialism.

You're right humans do have other problems with their nature. Laziness becoming more and more of a problem and those people will have to buy everything to survive, therefore keep the tax base flowing in a consumption tax system.

I agree with you there cape, Capitalism is the awesome.

 

In all honesty I'm not 100% sold on an tax system yet, just think consumption is the one that benefits the hard working American the most. There is an argument to be made for other forms of taxing a society.

I just know the current system is ridiculously antiquated, over complicated and costs us too much as citizens in every aspect.

 

This seems like a solvable problem. taxing lower income people at the same 20% as higher income people would also be a punishing burden, so we came up with sliding tax scale workarounds. I would think a consumption tax system could be constructed with similar workarounds.

I thought so too, at first, but the more i think about consumption tax, i'm not so sure. Sure avoiding a new t.v. or car purchase to skirt the tax might seem like a job killing move, but free markets do a good job of responding...increased demand for used item prices would cause prices to go up to the the point where this would probably end up being a revenue - neutral decision. Not buying anything at all means more money in your pocket, which (unless you bury it in the matress) probably gets invested somewhere that creates jobs.

I'm intrigued by consumption-based tax system. I'm a free-market believer so i like the idea of linking taxation to consumption of resources rather than pure work. I agree there would have to be a lot of adjustments made to achieve the social welfare outcomes we may want.

 

Regarding #1 & #2, I should have used the word "manage" vice "control", as the issue in my mind is the ability to manage the situation. I am for less overbearing and over-reaching gov't, but they do need the ability to do their job with budgets, etc. Some of the other issues are difficult to predict/project and some unintended consequeses maybe unknown.

And I am definitely for a simplified tax code, regardless if it eliminates work to navigate its complexities. There are probably other areas where people could be more productive.

 

There are a number of ways to measure commerce. It’s computable.

Tax rates can change now (as we just saw), and could under a different system.

It is the same dollars, from earner’s perspective...

 

There are unforeseen consequences whenever you try something new, especially on such a grand scale; however, this a more free market approach. Less individual capital will be tied up by uncle sam and unable to use for consumption (the thing our economy runs on now). The IRS would get their money on the back end of a transaction, not the front end without a transaction taking place. You would free up more immediate capital for more transactions....i.e. more tax base.

Of course there would be kinks to work out; but, if you believe in the free markets and their ability to flourish more without government intervention, then you more think a more free market approach would do a better job at correcting itself, no?

 

taxation should ALWAYS be on consumption, never on production

you tax the thing you want LESS of, sheesh
buy low sell hi etc
invest in Frozen concentrated orange juice, just watch out for Beeks

 

back to the treadde

 

A consumption tax in my opinion, (and everyone has a nuanced opinion on here, so take a breath)...

...Is regressive, and puts an undue out of proportion burden on those who can least afford to buy groceries, gas etc. Also, since the US economic output - GNP - is 70% based on consumer spending, it will decrease demand for durable goods, entertainment, and discretionary spending, or folks will go for a work around and buy overseas.

(BTW 69% of statistics are made up.)

I don't know what the answer is on taxes, but this is what I've seen -

When George Jr. left office we were broken, the US auto industry ready to collapse, and people losing jobs and homes due to the deregulation of the banks and the creation of derivatives and phony baloney investment vehicle, a big ponzy scheme that came unraveled by Lehman Bros collapse.

Obama rescued Detroit, in spite of Republican calls for it's demise, and steadied the financial markets with federal intervention. If the GOP had their way, the banks would have all gone under, AIG too, and we'd still be wondering where our next paycheck would be coming from.

Just my POV.

Now the stupid Democrats want to socialize, which will cost them another election, and Trump is rightfully starting a trade war with China, and calling Europe to the carpet on paying their equal share for NATO defense. I'm good with all that. But Trump is doing crazy shit behind our back, with the Russians, and we won't know what for a couple years. He has and is giving them strength, legitimacy, and a renewed financial clout they lost since Reagan crushed them.

The rest is still up the the air, but it is not a good look. The fact that Trump tore up the Pan Asian Treaty has opened the door for China to be the alpha dog in the region. It's all too stupid and impulsive, if you ask me. Nobody has, but that's my 2 cents.

 

Groceries...you need to look up an what a non taxable essential good is. Pretty much anything except candy, alcohol and prepared foods are tax free in you grocery store. Also, as far as gasoline, you are forgetting about the federal tax of 18.4 cents per gallon that would disappear. You guys don't seem to consider the amount of money companies will save with no federal taxes whatsoever....

Decrease demand for durable goods? Don't get that logic, if anything it would decrease demand for Chinese shit that doesn't last.

Folks will have more discretionary income EVERY paycheck.

Buy overseas? I'm almost positive overseas shipping will be more the tax on any big ticket items. Plus, haven't you seen the tariffs lately lol

Can't argue with the rest Dogg

 

We haven’t had a “saving” economy for some time.

Poor people buy stuff off of food stamps, unless it’s a bag of chron!

GDP and consumption would drive the government’s decision (partly) to “fund society” via a consumption tax.

As for tax rates, look at the history of income tax rates.

Anywho, tax rates are down currently and I’m okay with that...government spending is the devil in da deets!!!

 

I think the centrists, like slick Billy(Clinton) had the right idea, moderate growth, moderate taxes, zero deficit, 8 years of peace and prosperity. But the right wing couldn't stand not making big money off wars and general misery, so now we have what we have, a split system of morons on the left and the right, with most of us in the middle having nothing and no body to rely on but our selves.

 

The right wing aka the Koch Bros and Rupert Murdoch and the like, they don't buy in to the social contract we the people have in creating our government. We pay taxes, and in return, the government builds infrastructure so every one can trade and make money, and the government insures we don't get invaded by foreign enemies. And it protects our individual rights for life, liberty and the pursuit of perfect waves. I think it's a pretty fair deal.

Those super rich movers and shakers on the right think they have all they need, so they feel no need to buy in. But when social decay and the lack of our military power cause riots in the street, and emboldens an emerging China that chokes out all our primary trading partners, it will be too late to realize the ultra rich fucked us out of our birthright as free Americans. They will be setting up colonies in Mars, we will be stuck here speaking Russian.

I've paid taxes my whole life, most of my family served in the military for generations, and we've employed lots of folks, put food on their tables and sent their kids to college with the grocery stores and small businesses we've owned. I'm still waiting on my government voucher for a free all expense trip to one of our wave rich colonies - Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam (no I won't go to Guam), Marshall Islands, or the Philippines, so I can get perfect waves.

That's my manifesto = don't Trump on me!

 

And the left has an insatiable appetite for social programs and spending programs.Both sides jacked it up!

Most of America is “centrist” (I think).

The money we have spent is unfathomable

 

Now the weak ass stupid Dems are going all Bernie Leftie. That will get them minority status forever. Remember George McGovern, Nixon waxed him electorally like 350 (the whole country) to 2 (Massadumass). That's the hysteria Trump has caused, and they are taking the bait, instead of presenting a reasonable,workable, livable, American alternative, so sad too bad buy gold and guns I'm dong another bong and a shot, God Bless ya'll surfing bros and fuck the Russian hos. I'm a surfdogg, and youze can suck my logg.

 

Jeopardy is my favorite show ! Alex trebec is a pimp.

 

As a point of reference on the black market, there is a whole commercial market that is not currently taxed. Not advocating more tax on anything but consumption tax captures all participants in economy...black market may or may not grow but if it does, consumption should stay relatively constant (supply and demand period...yea it will fluctuate but it already does right?).