UH OH! New Jersey Beachfront Rebuilding vs. Beach Replenishment vs. Beach Fees!

Discussion in 'All Discussions' started by Erock, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. stinkbug

    stinkbug Well-Known Member

    746
    Dec 21, 2010
    that's because they pay for the roads with a gas tax. Gas in California is about $2 more expensive than NJ, per gallon. It's ridiculous.
    NJ has some of the cheapest gas in the country.
     
  2. JohnnyUtah

    JohnnyUtah Well-Known Member

    100
    Sep 26, 2008
    <br /><br />I've been saying the same thing for years dude. Every time I go out west its just amazing to see huge, clean beaches with better amenities and no fee’s. Theory; So cal beach goers are bred to respect the beach and take pride in it because its free for everyone to share, NJ beach goers are slobs BECAUSE THEY ARE PAYING TO GET ON and feel that \"Someone\" should pick up their mess like a bus boy in a restaurant. In a perfect world this would can be an opportunity to educate NJ people take pride in the beach, have the state govt manage combing and stop these greedy little towns from charging people to go on the beach. <br />Check out surfrider.org for some interesting rules for beach access in NJ—Surfers are getting screwed more than anyone else on the beach badge deal. <br />
     

  3. dave

    dave Well-Known Member

    418
    Dec 11, 2008
    you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. NJ has thicker population density. More people going to less square footage of beach than anywhere in the country, including CA, as well as way better public transportation options going to the beachfront than CA. More people = more garbage, more need for policing, rescue services, road usage, etc. Its not just garbage pickup and lifeguards. If a state-wide "Beach tax" were put to a referendum it would fail spectacularly. So, the $$ has to come from someplace. Drive a few hrs inland Southern CA and you hit unpopulated desert or farmland. Drive a few hrs inland from NJ coast and you hit Pittsburgh (3m population) NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, by far. SO many people seem so desperate to make beach tags all about politics or class resentment. Its simple math.
     
  4. Erock

    Erock Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2011
    Yes, technically. But it is up to the municipalities to maintain and regulate them. ie the Town of Carolina Beach regulates 4x4 access on the North End (Freeman Park). The beach is technically owned by the State but the State has no say in how it's regulated. Ft. Fisher State Park, on the other hand, is wholly owned and controlled by the state with no municipal involvement. The State and only the State regulates 4x4 access and everything else there.

    Also, the State's "ownership" is actually a Public Land Trust that relieves the state of any liability associated with the beach in the form of drownings, rednekkin accidents, alien abductions, tsunamis, earth quakes, hurricanes, stupidity, et al. The municipalities in NC provide other services like lifeguards and such in an effort to protect their citizens and visitors to attract more tourism in the future. As far as I know, there is no municipal liability associated with the beach--below the dune line. Well, other than when one of the lifeguard trucks runs over you while sunbathing.... Then the municipality has a liability issue.

    How is it set up differently in NJ? Are the counties the ones who actually own the beach up there or just the local municipalities? Who controls beaches located in a county but not associated with a municipality?
     
  5. Erock

    Erock Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2011
    NJ has gas tax too, the price of gas is close to what I pay here--although NC has a higher gas tax I believe. And yes, that is how we pay for our roads. It's a little more transparent in respect to accounting and accountability.
     
  6. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    The state passes legislation, and the state supreme court determines case law, regarding access and eminent domain. But municipalities are charged with enforcing the laws. So some towns do... some don't. The DEP does not show up to monitor municipalities' regulation of beach access, and has no power to prohibit beach tags, blackball surfing, mandate parking and amenities... but maybe they should.
     
  7. stinkbug

    stinkbug Well-Known Member

    746
    Dec 21, 2010
    saying gas prices in Cal are the same in NJ is like saying the pizza is just as good...no truth in it.
    I was shocked at gasoline prices in California when I lived there, and during many visits.
    Yes NJ has a gas tax, as do all states, but it's far less than Cal. They make up the difference with tolls.
     
  8. stinkbug

    stinkbug Well-Known Member

    746
    Dec 21, 2010
    Gas prices are running about 0.70 cents higher per gallon than NJ...mostly due to their gas tax being 2x that of NJ. That's why we have tolls...plain and simple.
    Now, back to beach badges....
     
  9. ECkneelo

    ECkneelo Well-Known Member

    87
    Apr 19, 2008
    The state of CA. does not own all the beaches. Huntington Beach, Newport, Seal Beach, Laguna and many others are city beaches with their own lifeguards. The beach between HB and Newport is state beach with a $15. parking fee a day for parking on the beach, but in all these places you can park for free in the neighborhoods, or off the main road parking. It's this way all over the state.
    The liability part is pretty amazing. How did that happen? Being able to sue the community because someone drowns is analogous to being able to sue the state if you crash on the freeway regardless of fault, because there wasn't a cop there to prevent it, or failed to prevent it.
    Must be why they didn't allow surfing at Sandy Hook a few years ago because of "high surf" and it was only five ft. LOL!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  10. ECkneelo

    ECkneelo Well-Known Member

    87
    Apr 19, 2008
    Yep, I'm against user fees. I shouldn't have to pay every time I want to go surfing. Some things in life should be free. The beach communities already rape the public with all the exorbitant hotel fees, high cost of food and everything else they can charge for only at the beach. You guys even have pay to use toilets. Geeeez!
    Once again, NJ is the only state that has beach tags. What I think is back east they think the beach is for vacations, whereas here on the west coast it's a lifestyle, a daily, or weekly occurrence.
     
  11. surfrr

    surfrr Well-Known Member

    226
    Sep 29, 2010
    Of course no one wants to pay, but this is where your assumption is wrong. The reality is that most of the surfers don't have to pay to surf. Many people surf before or after work, midweek when tags aren't necessary.

    Surfing is expensive as it is and not as many would do it if they had to pay every time they went.
     
  12. Sniffer

    Sniffer Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    Isnt it better here on the east coast that locals have the beach to themselves for 9 months of year as opposed to your west coast lifestyle where EVERYBODY surfs and thinks they are joecool all year round? Your argument smells like home sickness.
     
  13. Sniffer

    Sniffer Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    Justification is a wonderful thing isnt it!
     
  14. rights4life

    rights4life Well-Known Member

    47
    Mar 29, 2012
    Republican Sen. Michael Doherty says he has long been frustrated that N.J. is one of the few states that allow communities to charge beach fees. "The Jersey shore is the domain of single-family homes and they really are not welcoming to outsiders and day-trippers coming in," Doherty says. "They don't want you in their town. That's why there's no place to park, no place to use the restroom, and they charge you seven, 12 dollars just to get on the beach for the day."

    yea cause there are sooooo many locals who take up the parking (its you ****ing bennys taking up the parking) and oh yeah i dont want you at my beach cuz you ruin it, leave trash and are scumbags who use my home as your vacation…so yeah go **** yourself senator
     
  15. Gumbya55

    Gumbya55 Member

    23
    Sep 9, 2009
    I feel that reasonable beach fees would be fine, like $2/day or $25 for a season. But when you are getting into $75+ per badge, and have a family of four, things are getting out of control. We already know the misuse of these funds, that there are surpluses. And you're right, these fees only protect the wealthy. It doesn't cost that much to pay a guard for a summer, or for a high school kid to drive around on a 4-wheeler and change garbage bags. Government is corrupt, especially in NJ. People are lazy in local government, that's a fact. They want their pensions, and their office jobs, and their raises every year for no reason. They don't want to rock the boat.

    Our only hope is for Christie to review this area of the state, and make corrections like he has in other parts. In the meantime, let's investigate where previous money for these towns are:

    http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_6f8d0094-a91e-11e1-9d5c-0019bb2963f4.html
     
  16. rvb

    rvb Well-Known Member

    237
    Mar 2, 2011
    one local benefit to NJ charging for beach access, is it keeps all the tourists funneled to those certain popular beaches where they think they have to go. locals can enjoy other beaches without it being tourist time.

    and i've never paid to surf once..morning, afternoon, night, midweek, weekend - never.
     
  17. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    See that's what I was thinking ...beach tags are mostly paid by non-surfers. But we pay state income and sales taxes, so beach tags actually may not hit surfers as hard as you think. A beach funded completely by local taxes might actually hit surfers harder, and completely let off the hordes of tourists using the beach at any given time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  18. brewengineer

    brewengineer Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2011
    Yet SC has much cheaper gas than NJ, and no toll roads. All states have a heavy gas tax, and the feds take an even larger chunk. I used to work in the oil and gas industry.

    Toll roads are BS. NJ, VA, and PA all have many toll roads, and these roads seem to be maintained just as poorly as the non toll roads. Then there are the bridge tolls (Delaware to NJ = rape).

    In regards to paying $8-$12 per day to use the beach, I think that is asinine. I don't think the beach communities should get any more assistance from the state or feds if they are charging for use. Why should I have to see my taxes go toward their maintenance, when I still have to pay to use it? The largest cost of beach maintenance is restoration. The only reason there is restoration, is because wealthy people built houses right up to the water.
    As if I needed more reasons to dislike NJ...
     
  19. suzyq

    suzyq Active Member

    25
    Jan 7, 2013
    yes but you in cali have all year round income and larger amounts of tourists, us nj people have a small 3 month window of large income from the coast and the revenue is vital to the small bussiness/beach up keep,no brainwashing just simple economics.