it will take at least 30-50 years to unwind from a competition-forced based society to a voluntary one. and that transformation would have to be voluntary and there would be 'haircuts' all around for all parties
Please explain where all these Republican social conservatives come from then? Kick them out and you might get my interest...seems to me they get a whole lotta support from the moral majority crowd.
I am with you there. Here is the deal. Yes, conservatives, by nature in many cases have a scewed "moral belief system" that in some ways drives their voting habits. However, given the choice, I am certain that most conservatives would abandon those moral beliefs in a trade off for the economic and structural beliefs that they share with libertarians and even some liberals. I am one of those people. There was a time was on board with a lot of conservative "values" if you will. But over the years in reality, I began to realize that I really don't care who people love, or if gay people marry etc. And when I abandoned those viewpoints, because I understood that they are senseless in nature, I found myself still standing in a position in which I still firmly shared common ground with conservative economics, which is where I now find myself, by definition a libertarian. I made that number up, but that is the 25% of conservatives. The bible belt ones. The ones that run on anti abortion and anti gay marriage and all that other nonsense. I think the other 75% feel alienated, because all they have on their side are religious nuts and tee baggers. It's a shame that the 25% has so much money and media influence, because they are certainly not the majority to me. Not all conservatives are racist hate mongers. Most of them are people that could do without all the rhetoric, but firmly belief in a system that is fair. Not just for the super rich and the poor. Because lets face it, in the current economic climate, there are millions of poor people who are more inclined to stay trapped in the system, because the tit keeps feeding and it is designed to do so. Some of us would like to see better opportunity for people to take advantage of and contribute to. Some of us believe that poor people ACTUALLY want jobs, not handouts. So, I don't know all the answer, but I know I don't care what my neighbor does in his home, if he owns a gun, if he is gay or if he is a muslim.... I care about day to day things. I care what the government does with my money. The money they take from me every day. I kind of care where it goes. And I don't like seeing other people spend my money. If we were getting better schools, and new roads, maybe, but we just dress a bleeding wound......
Imagine Jaws Music playing in your head when you read the latest CNN headline from 5 minutes ago... 'Call it the "GOP rally": The Dow surges 101 points to a record. The S&P 500 also closes at an all-time high.'
You'll have to come up with some real data for me to accept that its only 25% of Reps that are on their moral high horse. Feels like the opposite to me and my (bull****) anecdotal evidence. If what you say is true why aren't they flocking to the libertarian party in droves? Seems to me that's what they are preaching, fiscal conservativism but freedom for all. Problem is they've been playing that card for decades now. Remember Newt? Boy was he a pillar or morality and decency. They've been actively courting the lunatic fringe (Dems too) for a long time, I doubt its only 25% in there...I've personally know lots of friends and family that have left the Rep party, either to vote Dem or declare independent because they can't take that crap. My step-Dad is ex-Navy and retired, loved Ronald Reagan, and now says they have nothing to offer him. He doesn't care who screws who or who worships what or gets an abortion or worry about someone taking his guns or whatever. He just doesn't want to see his funds disappear and die penniless. And I'd love for someone to tell him he's just lazy and looking for a handout. Man served his country for many years then worked his a$$ off for that much more. They are driving out the moderates and replacing them with the moral majority, and now they are stuck with them. They've painted themselves into a corner and now they have to cowtow to the moralists. The fiscal conservative reps and moderate dems should just bolt from both parties, join the libertarians, and let the dem and rep party die with their lunatic fringes, then maybe they could do some good things. I won't be holding my breath though, Libertarians just can't pay the same as the other groups.
Zach, with all the rants you do on the environment, I am shocked you could be a right winger. Libertarianism is great, if you didn't have so many hard core right wingers posing as libertarians.
You hit the nail on the head. I used to vote republican, back when that party was more moderate. They are trending more and more towards the extreme now. Half the GOP is made up of hard core Christian fundamentalists.
the political spectrum has been divorced from reality to fit a nonsensical dialectic both parties want your money but one party blue team says do what you want to your body and lets take care of everyone at the expense of the productive and create social programs that destroy family values (controlled economy with lots of taxes, free self) the otherones red team says help business make money and exploit foreign resources via mechanisms of capitalism and keep people in line (free economy (albeit with political favors and crony capitalism), controlled self) its a false dialectic I want free self and free economy I am what I think approaches European Liberal? If I were to fall on the political spectrum. \ Contract enforcement is the only viable job for an entity created voluntarily by a populace. security, roads, travel, food, medicine, etc...let reputation in the market determine these things' values anyway
Euro liberal, in my experience, is more or less a electoral socialist government model. Managed to work in Sweden. The rest of Europe, well, on the verge of bankruptcy (Germany is literally the only thing holding the EU together). I get the sentiment, utopia, everyone gets what they need. I believe thatcher said that socialism works until you run out of everyone else's money...IE Greece portugal Spain Italy etc etc etc. entitlement spending at its finest. Retirement in soup lines. I think it worked in Sweden due to culture. They aren't a lazy people. Despite the general lack of work incentive, they still work hard. The euro mainland is more concerned with wine and tapas.
They are a like minded cultural block, agreeing on much....for now maybe I am thinking Libertine...bring out the whores!
Yeah, Sweden has had a solid run. I'll give them that much. I don't buy into socialism, but hell, if it works for them, good. At least there's one country operating in some semblance of order. I can't say that, switzerland kills it. We advertise ourselves as being capitalist. Our tax system alone says otherwise. We are a crony driven publicly held business shelter. True laissez faire capitalism by default makes crony deals impossible. Businesses of the magnitude we see today simply would not exist. It would be based on one's own merit, zero gov subsidies. That's capitalism. Whatever we have today....who the **** knows. It would bring a tear to the reichs eye though. Gov is the root of all evil. Many true libertarians call themselves libertarian, when in fact I suspect they are anarcho leaning. No qualms with that, I like it.
when the churches speak they say 'division is good'. if one purports to conquer its the first step. funny how the most vocal ones tend to represent other countries. example: judaism is rejected by 98% (!!) of americans. in my town they control the appointed school board. one of them stole a valedictorian award for their daughter. took it from an asian. they are less confrontational (asians). less of a stink. clean got away with it.... even though it made the national news. conclusion: the churches priorities are not those of the citizenry.
Like I said from the beginning, the 25% is a made up figure and I prefaced my whole comment with that. I am just someone that is "somewhat" on the inside of conservatism looking out. And the problem on the right, are all the 55+ retirees and the older generation that makes up a HUGE majority of the party.... And I certainly hope that every Ex-Vet gets everything that they deserve. And despite what actually happens in reality, that is something that almost ALL convservatives believe. If you want support of the military, and anyone who has served, the right definitely FEELS that way. Carry that task out is a different story. Just like Liberals all would love "universal healthcare". Again, easier said than done. There are checks and balances.... And to me, the vast majority of the right does not care about these social "moralities" anymore. That ship has sailed. Nothing left to hold on to anyway.... This is a small example, but speaks volumes for what each side really feels: The left wants to stimulate economic growth by instituting heavier regulations on employers, making them shell out more money to the people directly. They want the top to support the bottom, but in doing so, they cut out the middle. And this is why it always fails. Look what Papa Johns said and a million other companies. Ok, so you are forcing us to provide services to our employees over 30 hours per week, well we are going to cut everyones hours to 29. That is business. Public comapnies have responsibilities.... And making the top fund the entire welfare and handout system doesn't work.... The right feels that you should allow businesses to grow and operate freely and their success will trickle down and dictate job growth and expansion. You can't bite the hand the feeds you and ask for more food. That is if we are really attempting to operate under a true capitalist economy. The left is pushing for $15 per house fast food wages, when touch screen computers are free and do a better job. The left pushing for all these payouts to employees and the unemployed, but yet we as a society are so appalled that when they do this, job s start getting outsourced. Why? Because when you keep increasing regulations and make it harder for small and large businesses to operate, you are being counter intuitive. And business owners and companies are going to make financial decisions accordingly. .... TBC
I hate to go back to healthcare, but this is the most glaring example. This was cutting off a nose to spite your face. It was a bad idea, that turned out even worse in it's application. The system is broken. I took my daughter out of a certain school (she is 3) because we found out that there were kids going there for free off of government funding, meanwhile all these moms are showing up in pajamas, dropping their kids off and then going back home and sitting around all day. Half the kids were speaking spanish. The teacher thanks me everyday when we would come in and say that my daughter was the only kid that EVER brings her homework back. All the other parents don't even look at it. The following week, we were out the door. Because I would rather pay a lot more and put my daughter in a situation where she can succeed, and not be surround by people who are trapped in a system and seem to be holding back half the nation. If that is what public education is all about, free handouts, lunch money, just to create middle school dropsouts, I want nothing to do with it... Every time I turn around I see sh** like this. And I'm over it. I will take care of my own family and uncle sam better give me back every penny he can, cause I got enough to take care of in my own family without shelling out for 50 kids from mexico that just got absorbed into the Beaufort County school system. Free of charge. Not so free since I am a tax payer. And I agree with bolting from both parties too, but the libs are just too small right now. If they get some actual leadership, if they can get some of the big dogs to jump ship, then others will follow suit. Right now, its just an underground movement.
I am not truly a "right winger" but there is pretty much only one thing I agree with the left on and that is environmental issues. But that said, all these offshore drilling campaigns are from the Obama administration, so that is a glaring reality, that it doesn't really matter what everyone says on the campaign trail. When the liberals get in office, they see the same realities that the conservatives do and at the end of the day, they hop right on the gravy trail too..... Both sides suck. Completely suck. But since the economy tanked, that he been my main focus. And I have never seen such a group of bad ideas and even worse applications in the name of "economic growth" than I have in the past 6 years. I agree with neither of them. But at the end of the day, I have to side with the people who happen to have MORE of my interests at heard. I am an educated white man, early 30s who isn't poor but isn't rich. I have spent my whole life hearing about everyone else in this country and this world. And constantly being asked to support the poor and support this cause and support immigration and blah blah blah... Well, this guy right here see the left, and they have ZERO to offer a guy in my situation, other than making it more difficult to be "in the middle".... I have been hearing the same song and dance since I was born. And by about age 25, I said you know what, fu** everyone else for once. When is the last time someone on welfare sat back and thought, ya know, what can I do, what can WE do to make Zach's life better or easier. Here he is working every day of his life. Paying his bills. Paying his taxes.... What can we do for HIM..... other than raise my healthcare by 100% over the past 4 years.
