Wayne what would intelligent alien life mean for your belief in God?

It is being disputed, actually, and the genetic principles are not taken from Darwin, but rather from Mendel.

Quite so, but this contradicts your first sentence.

 

True. I was loose speaking to the principles that are applied when discussion the proof of micro-evolution (peppered moths, fich beaks, etc.), and accounting for variation within species.. Mendel was a pioneer in understanding these things.

My first sentence was speaking to variation "with in" species (bad typo - I just fixed it). Hopefully the contradiction is remedied. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

All good.

The fundamental problem is that Darwin's theory begs the question regarding the origin of changes ( referred to as random mutations).

It can't just be stated that that these changes have no cause as it is impossible to prove this. Proceeding as if the existence of random mutations is fact assumes the answer to the very question which is being asked i.e. 'what causes diversity in living organisms?'.

The argument for random mutation can be boiled down to simply 'changes have no cause because they are random'... which obviously won't do at all. Belief in this unprovable assertion (which is supported only by a circular argument) requires, rather ironically, a 'leap of faith' and the suspension od scientific principles.

 

Another complaint is that the 'opposing' theory i.e. intelligent design is attacked only in it's obviously retarded biblical form, ignoring other intelligent design possibilities.

The only reason for this in my opinion is that those who oppose intelligent design are picking an easy target, essentially developing a 'straw man' argument.

 

Well stated. Transitions forms (or lack there of) and concrete proof of their causes remains elusive.

 

Yes and Darwinian theory presumes as its first premise that no causes exist, thus no causes are being looked for by the theory's adherents.

Of course I wouldn't want to make the same mistake that Darwinians do ( attacking a straw man) by attempting to refute all possible evolutionary theory via a debunking of Darwin's version. That wouldn't do at all...

Darwin's theory is the 'scientific' equivalent of Biblical theory .... and unfortunately these debates are conducted with only Darwin in one corner and the Bible in the other... retard vs retard in other words... drowning out more intelligent debate.

If we shelve these two puerile examples, which are used as champions for the two camps then we can proceed.

 

Please, first, define to me what you refer to as Darwinian evolution, and other forms of evolution, because to be quite honest, I'm not aware of other forms.

Why are random mutations implausible? I don't understand. Random mutations do happen, for instance, sickle cell anemia is a form of genetic mutation to help combat malaria. That is one modern example of mutations that we have witnessed in our own time.

The theory has also, certainly, been used to make verifiable claims. They have made multiple predictions, of where in the rock sediments certain fossils should be found, what traits they should have, and have found them exactly as they predicted.

You using big words does not make you sound any more intelligent when you are dismissing one of the most fundemental blocks of modern science. I'm sorry, but it is a fact. I don't understand why it's so hard to accept.

You don't disagree with the overwhelming consensus of gravity among the scientific community, right? So why do you so strongly oppose evolution when basically 100% of the science community agrees with it?

 

You say that random mutations occur by showing that changes occur... but you don't address the question of how it can be demonstrated that these 'mutations' occur randomly. That's the crux of the matter.

It is also not the case that 100% of the scientific community accept Darwin's theory, and it would make no difference to the discussion even if it were true, since it uses both the 'consensus fallacy' and the fallacious 'argument from authority'.

 

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."- Thomas Jefferson

 

bogus

What type of evolution are we talking about? Please list the different types so we can at least qualify your claims.

Evolution is not a fact. Its not provable. Its in my opinion the dumbest theory to have ever thought of.

If only I had the time to argue in this forum I would mop the floor with your evolution fact.

I'll leave you with this. Provide one example of information gaining mechanism that is not microevolution, mutation or adaptation. Im talking about information gain that results in one kind becoming another kind.

Single celled organism? 3.5 billion years ago? Where'd the cell come from? I'll tell you since you probably dont even know what you believe, a rock. 3.5 billion years? Dude you have no basis for that number. You werent there and the truth is it never happened. If you tell me your basis is the geologic column and fossil record then i cant help you.

 

I think it's possible God may have made creatures, maybe plants/fungus or something on other planets..

not likely, but possible.

 

Good one. I dont believe evolution because its not the truth. hopefully you're coming up with some answers to the questions I asked.

 

You don't have to believe in anything you don't want to, dude, but that doesn't mean it's false.

I'm not going to argue with you, because it's impossible to get through to people like you. I could give you all the facts in the world, and it wouldn't do a thing to convince you.

It's a waste of time.

 

I do not consider myself religious I hate that word......It definitely wouldn't change my view.....There are a lot of things I don't understand yet but I put my faith in christ plus nothing......On a side note in July of 2001 my buddy(also a believer) saw many small ufos that morphed into one huge ufo, proceeded to change different colors and then disappear right in front of us. Please don't tell me this was some secret govt project because there is no way on god's green earth what we saw was man made yet we are both still believers.

Serious question rcarter......Do you really care about your eternal salvation or are you just trying to get wayne going? Just the fact that you are opening up a bible, reading it and questioning it is a great thing. I suggest to keep reading it. Just out of curiosity what are your beliefs? I never understand why people think christians should have all the answers. Do atheists, agnostics, jews, muslims, lgbt community, hindus and buddhists have all the answers? I don't have all the answers on this earth and no one EVER will I just truly believe that one day every single one of us will stand in front of christ and he will want to know if we accepted him or rejected him. I don't care how good of a liar you are you won't be able to talk your way out of that one. Again these are my beliefs and the beliefs of a couple billion others but you have the freedom to believe whatever you want. That is what is so great about this gift of life we have been given.

 

I really can't believe there are actually people who still believe some sort of evolutionary process (be it darwin or otherwise) isn't how separate species came to be. Look at any isolated island chain for proof of that one.

And in regard to aliens, hasn't the Vatican come out and said aliens probably exist? C'mon man we live in a great big universe....you think we are all alone? That's just as dumb as thinking evolution isn't real.