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Thread: Popouts?

  1. #1
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    Popouts?

    aright... so we're always hearing how bad popouts are.. is this board a popout etc....

    I know popouts are made in china in a factory of non surfers and there's definitely a disadvantage over hand shaped boards... your not supporting a local shaper by buying a popout, the board was likely not inspected properly before leaving the factory etc.... but as far as the way the board rides, how bad could a popout really be? Is it just that they ding easier since they're not made by hand? I mean whoever designed the board (for most brands- Australia, canyon etc..) the one that created the design originally must have known what he was doing... I'm mostly referring to longboards

    lets hear some good points on this

  2. #2
    I have 3 longboards, 2 hand shaped polys, and 1 epoxy popout. The handshapes are 1. Stewart Hydro Hull 9-0 2. Ricky Carrol 9-1. The popout is a 10-2 by Southpoint, I bought it about 10 years ago.

    I enjoy all of these boards quite a bit, but my favorite is the popout. The board is durable as they come, never had so much as a ding repair or heal dent, does not yellow in the sun, and has a really nice feel to it. As far as how it rides, I am not sure I can say I prefer the feel of the popout or the polys.

    Having more or less no preference as far as how the different boards ride, I am most likely inclined to go with a popout for my next longboard based on the quality and toughness a popout provides. Logs are expensive and easy to ding in transport, and in my opinion, logs should last a long long time, so the toughness factor wins out.

    For short boards, I go local custom poly boards every time. I have yet to try a pop out short board.
    Last edited by Kahuna Kai; Aug 14, 2012 at 04:52 PM.

  3. #3
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    a few things:

    1. all "popouts" are not created equally. firewires, nsps, & surftechs are all technically popouts. while i'm personally unimpressed w/ how these all ride, there are obvious differences in the purpose & quality of the aforementioned labels.
    2. the canyons, surfboards australia, etc...that you see in shops now are NOT popouts...they are traditionally contructed poly boards manufactured overseas on the cheap by non-surfer labor. how this usually happens is that when the company closes or goes out of business, someone buys up the rights to the label & ships off to china to make the boards again. one of the worst offenses, IMO, since they are capitalizing on the former prestige of the label while manufacturing a cheap, ****ty product for their own profit. at least the brands that work w/ gsi put that label on their china-produced boards, so you are aware of what you're getting. these others don't.
    3. back to popouts. when you scan a design & then make it in a mold, a la surftech, you lose much of the subtlety of the design...concaves mellow out or disappear altogether, rails become soft & lose their edge, the board itself as a whole does not flex the same, etc...all this translates to a board that doesn't work as well as the original, but has the added "benefit" of being harder to ding & not breaking as easily. as i said, i personally don't like the way these boards ride. surftechs get a "chatter" going in any kind of chop & don't provide the "pop" or flex through turns that i like from my polys, above & beyond the loss of performance due to the changes to the bottom & rail contours.

    there are, however, alternatives to all this...coil industries, for example, makes boards in a construction that is similar to firewire, but light years more advanced & arguably better. futureflex, hydroflex, & keahana, are all other examples of companies who developed a production technique & contracted out to many different shapers to produce more advanced, high performance, & more durable, surfboards domestically.
    Last edited by njsurfer42; Aug 14, 2012 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #4
    njsurfer42,

    I'm just curious as to why Coil boards are "light years more advanced & arguably better" than firewire. I have a firewire spitfire and love it but I am currently looking at adding a foil to the quiver as a more traditional shortboard when the surf is actually good.

    thanks,
    Dean

  5. #5
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    42... well said. I tend to think of popouts as boards that are molded, and otherwise go un"shaped". Different glassing technology can be used... hand lammed by cheap labor overseas, or given a composite skin and vac bagged. The down side to molded cores is that they tend to be very simple designs and lack the fine tuning hand shaping gives a board. A CNC milled core that is finish-shaped by a master shaper, however, is not a popout, and can be of very high quality and consistency. Which is great when you're cranking out thousands of the same board, after the design has been dialed in over many generations of prototypes.

    Glassing that is done by unskilled labor that does not surf can result in boards that, again, lack detail... where a little extra resin is ok and where it's not... how far an edge needs to be carried forward of the fins, and how sharp it has to be... that kind of stuff. Similarly, fin box/plug installations are often sloppy or done improperly, without the master glasser around to make sure things are up to standard. The good side is board prices go down, if that's the kind of thing that matters to you, and it does to a lot of people.

    Popouts that are molded, then given a composite skin, are very durable, last a long time, and so the money spent on one is a good investment. But... they ride very differently due to the nature of their construction, and as 42 said, they generally don't have the design refinements that hand shaped, hand glassed boards do.

    So how does your China-made board ride? That's up to you to decide.... it depends on what you're after. Any board can ride great if it's what you're looking for.

    Hope this helps...
    Last edited by LBCrew; Aug 14, 2012 at 05:26 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2MARG8 View Post
    njsurfer42,

    I'm just curious as to why Coil boards are "light years more advanced & arguably better" than firewire. I have a firewire spitfire and love it but I am currently looking at adding a foil to the quiver as a more traditional shortboard when the surf is actually good.

    thanks,
    Dean
    Firewires are mass-produced in factories and have very little involvement from actual humans in their build process. Their skins resemble NSP construction as opposed to glass laminate. The foam they use is cheap as you would expect from a high-production operation. I had a Dominator with rapid-fire and liked it alright but it still just felt too stiff to me. Still a nice board after I sold it to a buddy a couple years back... right when I started getting into Coil boards.

    For Coil, they are based on the Space Coast and their boards are a product of that. Their area probably has more materials scientists per square mile than any other place in the nation, so they are in the perfect place to develop the tech they have. The matrices of glass they use are completely unique to them as far as I know--this includes the matrix on the rails and the glass on the rest of the board, plus they use very high quality foam. They are a small shop and do mostly custom orders, so naturally the boards they produce will be better suited to an individual rider and not a generalized one size fits all shape. Plus the foils they use are pretty unique and very effective. I have seen plenty of Firewires break or delaminate, seen one Coil delaminate but never seen one break.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the info Erock...Much appreciated.

    Dean

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock View Post
    Firewires are mass-produced in factories and have very little involvement from actual humans in their build process. Their skins resemble NSP construction as opposed to glass laminate. The foam they use is cheap as you would expect from a high-production operation. I had a Dominator with rapid-fire and liked it alright but it still just felt too stiff to me. Still a nice board after I sold it to a buddy a couple years back... right when I started getting into Coil boards.

    For Coil, they are based on the Space Coast and their boards are a product of that. Their area probably has more materials scientists per square mile than any other place in the nation, so they are in the perfect place to develop the tech they have. The matrices of glass they use are completely unique to them as far as I know--this includes the matrix on the rails and the glass on the rest of the board, plus they use very high quality foam. They are a small shop and do mostly custom orders, so naturally the boards they produce will be better suited to an individual rider and not a generalized one size fits all shape. Plus the foils they use are pretty unique and very effective. I have seen plenty of Firewires break or delaminate, seen one Coil delaminate but never seen one break.


    beat me to it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahuna Kai View Post
    in my opinion, logs should last a long long time, so the toughness factor wins out.
    i agree w/ you that logs should last a long time...but i'm also looking for a particular "feel" when riding my log, so a popout isn't going to work for me. i like my logs heavy, so 8 or 10oz cloth or volan is the call for me. w/ that kind of mass behind it, they glide for days.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock View Post
    For Coil, they are based on the Space Coast and their boards are a product of that. Their area probably has more materials scientists per square mile than any other place in the nation, so they are in the perfect place to develop the tech they have. The matrices of glass they use are completely unique to them as far as I know--this includes the matrix on the rails and the glass on the rest of the board, plus they use very high quality foam. They are a small shop and do mostly custom orders, so naturally the boards they produce will be better suited to an individual rider and not a generalized one size fits all shape. Plus the foils they use are pretty unique and very effective. I have seen plenty of Firewires break or delaminate, seen one Coil delaminate but never seen one break.
    I've heard nothing but GREAT things about Coil boards, I'm thinking about possibly contacting them around Oct. / Nov. time if I got the extra coin, i'm sure they'll consult with me on specs, but i'm just wondering what size I should be looking at. I'm 5'9" 170lbs, my smallest board I'm currently riding is a 6'10" WRV Fish, so I was thinking 6'4", but i'll let the shaper help me out on that i'm sure.